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Old 09-15-2016, 01:58 PM
 
3,960 posts, read 3,566,319 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeyondtheHorizon View Post
Most street level dealers are addicts/drug addicts. If they are not dealing then they are stealing. Drugs are expensive so they have to pay for them.

People make a choice to put a needle in their arm. You can have empathy and give people 2nd chances, but there has to be some level of personal responsibility. There seems to be this strange movement of calling drug dealers/robbers as scum, but drug addicts are just poor victims. People don't seem to realize that in many communities, the drug dealers and people who steal are the drug addicts.
I know.

I also know that drug users and alcohol abusers have a higher rate of antisocial personality traits (little to no empathy for others, willing to hurt others). It's not pretty, for sure.
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Old 09-15-2016, 02:20 PM
 
Location: New York City
19,061 posts, read 12,609,854 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Drug dealers are people too and to say you categorically don't like this is prejudiced
haha, ST.FU. Don't tell me with a straight face that's it's ok to ruin the lives of a whole neighborhood to feed a couple of kids. Seriously, F U and your whole army of DeBlasio wackos.

I'm all for more lenient sentences and treatment options for drug users, but as for the dealers they need to increase the punishment, like double the jail time and definitely taking away their kids (assuming they have any and/or remember their names)
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Old 09-15-2016, 02:40 PM
 
712 posts, read 523,198 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakeJones View Post

I'm all for more lenient sentences and treatment options for drug users, but as for the dealers they need to increase the punishment, like double the jail time and definitely taking away their kids (assuming they have any and/or remember their names)
Almost all street level dealers are addicts. Again, there is a lack of understanding that "dealers"(street level) and addicts are the same thing. There is no difference. If they are not selling, then they are breaking into your house, car, or stealing copper or any other type of crime. Drug addicts are almost always criminals. If they come from a good family with money, they steal their families money.

They don't need to increase the jail time for dealers. Are you familiar with the sentencing guidelines or is this just emotional reactionary rhetoric? The drug war gave out brutal draconian sentences for possession with intent to sell and the more weight you have the worse the sentence. People have gotten life sentences simply because of the quantity. It did nothing to get rid of drugs. The DEA thought the brutal sentences would increase the cost of drugs so much that people wouldn't buy the drugs because they couldn't afford it and that large sentences would deter people. It didn't work.
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Old 09-15-2016, 03:08 PM
 
Location: New York City
19,061 posts, read 12,609,854 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeyondtheHorizon View Post
Almost all street level dealers are addicts. Again, there is a lack of understanding that "dealers"(street level) and addicts are the same thing. There is no difference. If they are not selling, then they are breaking into your house, car, or stealing copper or any other type of crime. Drug addicts are almost always criminals. If they come from a good family with money, they steal their families money.

They don't need to increase the jail time for dealers. Are you familiar with the sentencing guidelines or is this just emotional reactionary rhetoric? The drug war gave out brutal draconian sentences for possession with intent to sell and the more weight you have the worse the sentence. People have gotten life sentences simply because of the quantity. It did nothing to get rid of drugs. The DEA thought the brutal sentences would increase the cost of drugs so much that people wouldn't buy the drugs because they couldn't afford it and that large sentences would deter people. It didn't work.
Spare me another violin. There is a very real and distinct difference between the dealer and the user, namely that the dealer enables hundreds of other users. The dealer is the mutation that drives the cancer, much like the pimp enables the prostitute.

The jails are filled with mainly users, not dealers, in only because there are so many users than dealers. The war on drugs cannot be dropped, but it needs to refocus. You deal with junkies on the social issues and you deal with the dealers and suppliers with aggressive prosecution
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Old 09-15-2016, 03:23 PM
 
25,556 posts, read 23,820,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakeJones View Post
haha, ST.FU. Don't tell me with a straight face that's it's ok to ruin the lives of a whole neighborhood to feed a couple of kids. Seriously, F U and your whole army of DeBlasio wackos.

I'm all for more lenient sentences and treatment options for drug users, but as for the dealers they need to increase the punishment, like double the jail time and definitely taking away their kids (assuming they have any and/or remember their names)
No drug dealer has ever ruined an entire neighborhood. People chose to use drugs.

And no, drugs don't ruin neighborhoods. Any neighborhood with massive rampant drug use has high levels of employment and a collasping economy. People who work AND have other outlets in life tend to use drugs at much lower rates, and that includes ALCOHOL.
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Old 09-15-2016, 03:23 PM
 
712 posts, read 523,198 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakeJones View Post
Spare me another violin. There is a very real and distinct difference between the dealer and the user, namely that the dealer enables hundreds of other users. The dealer is the mutation that drives the cancer, much like the pimp enables the prostitute.

The jails are filled with mainly users, not dealers, in only because there are so many users than dealers. The war on drugs cannot be dropped, but it needs to refocus. You deal with junkies on the social issues and you deal with the dealers and suppliers with aggressive prosecution
People CHOOSE to buy drugs from dealers. The dealers don't put a gun to their head. The crack head ADDICT putting a gun to your head to steal your money is worse than a dealer. Much worse.

Any junkie would deal drugs in a second. They steal from their own mother for god sakes. They commit armed robbery to get their next fix. Many sell to their friends/each other. This is not breaking bad with massive distribution. Some would sell their kids in many cases to get drugs. This has happened countless times.

Pimps don't enable prostitution. Prostitution is legal in many countries and the girls don't work for pimps. Pimps are mostly caused by making prostitution illegal. An adult should be able to make a decision if they want to sell their body. They are not a victim.

Oh and the worse drug of all is alcohol. Just look at the stats.
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Old 09-15-2016, 03:29 PM
 
712 posts, read 523,198 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakeJones View Post
. You deal with junkies on the social issues and you deal with the dealers and suppliers with aggressive prosecution
Such a lack of understanding here. You realize most crime including violent crime, in an average city is committed by junkies? Mostly looking for their next fix. Meth/crack ect and crime go together like peanut butter and jelly.Who do you think is holding up a gas station at gun point for a few hundred bucks? Not exactly long term thinking there. And most of the time when someone gets killed in one of these atrocities, the person is a high junkie and is every bit responsible for the murder/armed robbery. This idea of looking at junkies at harmless victims is ridiculous.
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Old 09-15-2016, 03:29 PM
 
25,556 posts, read 23,820,596 times
Reputation: 10119
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakeJones View Post
Spare me another violin. There is a very real and distinct difference between the dealer and the user, namely that the dealer enables hundreds of other users. The dealer is the mutation that drives the cancer, much like the pimp enables the prostitute.

The jails are filled with mainly users, not dealers, in only because there are so many users than dealers. The war on drugs cannot be dropped, but it needs to refocus. You deal with junkies on the social issues and you deal with the dealers and suppliers with aggressive prosecution
No. Street level users will sell any spare drug to someone else who wants them. Full time dealers tend to also use (not to the level of a junkie as they have a business to run).

The dealer isn't driving the cancer, because one can be addicted to legal substances like alcohol. Substance abuse is tied to psychological and socioeconomically factors and cannot be stopped by jailing dealers as addicts will get high off cold medicine, off lysol and other aerosols, gasoline, glue, and a host of other noxious substances.

In the countries that produce coca, most people do not become cokeheads or crackheads. One could chew coca leaves or drink coca tea and it is perfectly legal. Just because something is available does not force one to use it.

Back to what I said, drug dealers are people too, and demonizes them or dehumanizes them solves nothing, and is really an attempt to distract away from the fact that certain neighborhoods have low rates of high school graduation, low rates of employment, high rates of welfare, and a host of other social ills that make people more prone to addiction, and are the true source of the problem

Btw plenty of college students have done drugs and plenty of professionals have done drugs too, without losing their jobs or going homeless or whatever. There's a difference between use and abuse, just like there is a difference between occasionally drinking and outright alcoholism.
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Old 09-15-2016, 03:45 PM
 
712 posts, read 523,198 times
Reputation: 725
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
cannot be stopped by jailing dealers as addicts will get high off cold medicine, off lysol and other aerosols, gasoline, glue, and a host of other noxious substances.
Bingo. I've seen severe alcoholics drinking listerine bottles.

Increasing sentences for drug dealers increases the COST of drugs(dealers want more money for more risk), therefore increasing crime because addicts have to steal to get their fix. There is a reason alcoholics tend to commit less crime than heroin/crack addicts. Alcohol is CHEAPER. Decrease the cost of drugs and you decrease crime. The drug war has done the opposite. I'm totally against legalizing hard drugs, but simply increasing sentences to decades against dealers is idiotic and a failed policy.
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Old 09-15-2016, 04:24 PM
 
Location: New York City
19,061 posts, read 12,609,854 times
Reputation: 14781
The hearsay and generalizations on this page are off the charts. Do everyone a favor and keep the dealers in your own neighborhood, since obviously you love and adore those sympathetic figures so much
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