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there's a simple solution to this problem. Move the madison sqaure guardian and rebuild penn in all its beaux arts glory. they still have the architectural plans for it. move the garden to the west side. Its moved before. move it again. its ugly.
its a crime against humanity for what to penn station. New York city demands a glorious train station. Its the capital of the world. Philadelphia, baltimore, DC, chicago, hoboken, and even newark have beautiful train stations.
We already have a multi billion dollar train station at the WTC.
it's actually doable...and at a fraction of the cost of the WTC, since all the underground infrastructure and foundations are already there. just need to move MSG, which Cuomo won't do since he's owned by the dolan family.
All this money being spend over some dead senator's along with preservationists and liberals wet dream; to make right the injustice of the demolition of old NYP.
So billions will be spent, backs slapped and the aforementioned dead senator's name slapped onto a new "Penn Station"; meanwhile the problem is *NOT* the head house per se, but the infrastructure beneath.
Unlike New York Central's Grand Central Terminal, Pennsylvania Station doesn't work for a variety of reasons. Frist and foremost is the use of stairs (GCT uses gently sloping ramps), then you have to work with the fact Penn Station is just that, a station; built to handle predicted traffic from PRR and LIRR. It now handles that (Amtrak replacing PRR), and more.
The tracks into and out of NYP are what they are; even the new Hudson River tunnels won't change things much. Either another station is needed or land must be acquired to expand. The time for the latter has long passed as those who currently own mid-town/Far West Side property aren't going to give any of that rapidly increasing valued land up without a stiff fight.
If there was a way for incoming/out going trains to bypass those at this "new" NYP that would be something; but it isn't possible.
All this money being spend over some dead senator's along with preservationists and liberals wet dream; to make right the injustice of the demolition of old NYP.
So billions will be spent, backs slapped and the aforementioned dead senator's name slapped onto a new "Penn Station"; meanwhile the problem is *NOT* the head house per se, but the infrastructure beneath.
Unlike New York Central's Grand Central Terminal, Pennsylvania Station doesn't work for a variety of reasons. Frist and foremost is the use of stairs (GCT uses gently sloping ramps), then you have to work with the fact Penn Station is just that, a station; built to handle predicted traffic from PRR and LIRR. It now handles that (Amtrak replacing PRR), and more.
The tracks into and out of NYP are what they are; even the new Hudson River tunnels won't change things much. Either another station is needed or land must be acquired to expand. The time for the latter has long passed as those who currently own mid-town/Far West Side property aren't going to give any of that rapidly increasing valued land up without a stiff fight.
If there was a way for incoming/out going trains to bypass those at this "new" NYP that would be something; but it isn't possible.
That's from 5 years ago. First the redevelopment of the Farley Post Office into Moyihan station has to happen, and then Gateway has to happen (NJ transit tunnels are in bad shape, so Gateway does have to happen). After that the plan is to build the Penn South station, which would involve them raising the aforementioned block. The stiff fight isn't that big a deal, the transit agencies can easily use eminent domain and NY courts tend to rule in favor of major developments. The only thing holding back the building of another station is the money isn't there currently, and there are lots of competing transit projects.
I'm starting to believe people really don't get out and see this world. LA huge homeless population, you'll see homeless people sleeping near the Eiffel Tower. So we can't have nice spaces because of homeless people?
Yeah, you take a nice space, and add homeless people, and you've got a crappy space. So you may as well stick with the crappy space in the first place and save yourself some money.
I don't see what's wrong with the current Penn Station.. Yes, it's a little dirty and run down in some sorts. But I think this money could be put towards public transportation, but in better use.
getting the Dolans to willingly surrender MSG is anything but simple. Bottom line: MSG owns the property. And eminent domain is typically used to take property from the "little guy" - not billionaires.
Then you call Vinny from the bronx and get him to make an offer they can't refuse. Maybe cause some union trouble.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler
Yeah, you take a nice space, and add homeless people, and you've got a crappy space. So you may as well stick with the crappy space in the first place and save yourself some money.
It all depends on the mayor. You get a mayor like bloomberg or a sane guilani back in the 90's and the nypd will violate their civil rights like its singapore.
Also, Njtransit doesn't run 24/7. they could close the station. grand central closes when the last train departs. this gives them time to clean the station.
Society CANNOT afford new Husdon River tunnels, cannot afford new bridges, has lost skills to restore or rebuild Beaux Arts structures.
The last gasps of a bankrupt society were the Second Avenue Subway, the number 7 train, the #3 water tunnel, and the Tappan Zee Bridge.
We have spent all our fortune on neverending war and its armaments since 1941.
No society has ever found a way to fund guns AND butter...it is guns OR butter, and we chose guns.
Society CANNOT afford new Husdon River tunnels, cannot afford new bridges, has lost skills to restore or rebuild Beaux Arts structures.
The last gasps of a bankrupt society were the Second Avenue Subway, the number 7 train, the #3 water tunnel, and the Tappan Zee Bridge.
We have spent all our fortune on neverending war and its armaments since 1941.
No society has ever found a way to fund guns AND butter...it is guns OR butter, and we chose guns.
We will find a way to afford new Hudson River tunnels when the existing ones have to be closed due to deteoriating conditions.
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