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Old 11-27-2016, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Confines of the 101 Precinct
19,125 posts, read 32,666,756 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizzles View Post
Depends. Major metros like Dallas, Atlanta, Phoenix and Charlotte do. Obviously, you shouldn't relocate to Youngstown, OH or Buffalo.
So if all those major metros have jobs for New Yorkers, then problem solved.
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Old 11-27-2016, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Bronx
14,780 posts, read 17,404,166 times
Reputation: 7508
Quote:
Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
LOL, I'm absolutely not liberal. Trump supporter here.

At least you realize that NYC's systems (government, transportation, education, etc.) are tough to fix. It's that way because of years and years of trying to fix problems by adding layers and layers of laws and regulations. Instead of fixing the root cause of problems, they slap on tons of bandaids that the newest layer is only trying to keep the next layer beneath from falling off. More regs = the bandaids.

Are you really fixing income inequity or are you rewarding failure and punishing success? Why should someone that studied hard to get good grades and good education make the same as a slacker?

People make what they are generally worth in the job market. There are individual exceptions of course but for the most part, it is true.

A person that put in the hard work and time to go to medical school shouldn't be "income equal" to a high school drop out.

All those natives that aren't making a lot of money from your personal anecdotes are not making lots of money because they aren't good enough, not because the system is unfair. Plenty of natives have made it...and made it big, in some cases.
I did not vote for Hillary or Trump, however I do agree with some of Trump rhetoric. Again I feel sorry for masses of uneducated whites who have been duped by both Republicans and democrats in the past 40 years that has lead to where we are today! You probabkly think I'm #$^$##%$ stupid right? Of course I realize those such nuances are tough to fix. Overall anti, I agree with you to some extent. Plenty of educated people from NYC are heading to lower cost cities for opportunities. A CUNY degree from Baruch is not going to get you far at firm such as Edward Jones, but it may get one in. All I want to do is to fix income inequality, or have a solution to help those out so that they wont need to move to a low cost city where jobs can be scarce. Why would I reward failures? I'm just trying to make the game fair for some, that's all. You have a problem with that? Maybe you do! I just want to help folks to get a leg in the door. Nothing wrong with that. If not, institutions, firms, corporations should just move their business near to top college campuses. NYC is very competitive these days. I have a family friend who works on Wall street, earned a degree at a community college. His position now requires someone to have graduated at an Ivy League. Wait a minute. You actually think I want a non college educated man named tyquan to work as an investment banker? You think I'm stupiud or something? No. I just want those who are not as educated as a top grad to get a leg up in the employment field. Top firms, will always hire from Ivy Leagues and top private schools. I just want firms to help out with with reducing income inequality and in return will receive a tax credit. If not they can leave NYC and move to college towns.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
i am not surprised . nyc has always attracted and had an abundance of unskilled low level labor .
NYC has always attracted low skill labor, but also high skilled labor. Both labors feed off of each other.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Immigrants come from very different countries, and very different cultures. There is no such thing as immigrant culture. Having grown up in a heavily Latino and South Asian neighborhood, there were many people living 20 people to an apartment, or 50 people to a house. These people weren't millionaires by any stretch of the imagination.

As for the underground economy, the majority of people involved in that are not living that well off either. Yes a drug dealer has more money than someone who works at McDonalds. Many dealers are in and out of prison, and even the dealers themselves would not argue that is a good life.

To get a residence in a nice part of town, it costs a fantastic amount of money ($3k) for a studio and you will need to earn 40 times that amount.

NYC has had skyrocketing numbers of homeless, so if things were so great with jobs and for that matter off the books income we would not be seeing all these homeless.

Btw, social services has been cut and many landlords won't take welfare vouchers.
NYC is not the only city that has homeless issues. When I went to DC this past year, the Feds did a good job trying to hide the homeless. Homelessness is a big problem in DC. San Francsico also has a major homeless problem. One of the things I realized is that NYC, DC and SF have something in common. NYC DC and SF are part of major industries. These industries require skills, and top college certificates. NYC excels at media, Finance, DC excels at lobbying and politics and SF tech. These industries move billions of dollars a day across the country and world. These cities also attract educated persons from Ivy Leagues, to top private colleges like Georgetown, MIT and Stanford. DC, SF and NYC has some of the most expensive rents, mortgages, even in the surrounding suburbs are expensive. The more people move to these cities, rents will go up, mortgages will go up, jobs will become more competitive to obtain. The only solution will probably be for more and more city dwellers from elite urban areas to move inland or Down South. This will drive down costs, and free up job competition.

http://dailycaller.com/2016/11/22/dc...average-drops/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizzles View Post
The more we try to fix the problem the worst it will get. Even if you take housing out of the picture, many people simply aren't making the kinds of funds needed to live here comfortably, nor have the skillset to get the jobs needed to do so. I know I'll get called heartless, but many people need to head to lower COL places period if they want any hope of getting ahead. The other part of the picture as Antinimby pointed out is education. It's time for NYC to embrace school choice.
Texas has some of the strongest drop growth in years. Al Jazeera brought up a documentary about what economy should America follow, NY, California or Texas. Overall I agree with you. The only soluition is for those who are not educated or highly educated to head to lower cost areas. I'm not talking about Ohio, or upstate, but to places like Texas, Denver area, PHX area and such. However prices there will go up to, due to the influx of new comers. Also we must remember politics. The reason why NC, GA and Florida are becoming swing states is because demographics. Plenty of Northerners have moved into these states lately changing political dynamics little by little.


My advice is for those that want to get ahead in NYC and are from NYC. Good luck because most of life will be against you. Growing up in a single parent home will be one thing that can hurt a child. Expensive rent can be another, that means sources wont be allocated for such things such as tutoring to help a child's academics. Crowded schools is another problem, but also making it more competitive to get into a charter due to waiting list. Living in an socioeconomic depressed neighborhood, and having a name like Tyquan will only make it worse. Locals will have it worse because they are not well educated compared to Transplants, and those who live in ritzy neighborhoods like in Manhattan, Riverdale Bronx or Park Slope Brooklyn. Also civil service jobs will become more hard to obtain since private sector jobs are cutting benefits and so on, making civil service more attractive. You'd be surprise to see a sanitation worker with a Masters degree from NYU.


For those that are moving here. You are not lucky enough to live in an rent control, rent stabilized or rent subsidized apartment. These folks are living quite comfortable for the mean time. Rent here is expensive so plan on living with roomates, however there are far flung neighborhoods where rent is cheap, but these areas are devoid of any nightlife and takes more than an hour to get to work. If you want a job, make sure you have a degree from an Ivy League, top private school, or have an masters degree. Check to see if you have a college alumni club located in the city that can help you with employment. For example I just found out my college alumni does employment meet ups in San Diego, New Orleans, and DC. My college alumni does not host meet ups in NYC.

Last edited by Bronxguyanese; 11-27-2016 at 05:09 PM..
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Old 11-27-2016, 07:32 PM
 
18,242 posts, read 11,653,926 times
Reputation: 11860
New York City has a problem, and mayor de Boob along with current city council aren't helping; you cannot continue to encourage large numbers of illegals, poor or whatever to arrive in NYC, then fail to plan for where and how they will live.


Right now various economic insecurities are reaching up into the middle classes. Housing and other costs are rising while many paychecks are not, that or at least aren't keeping up with *real* inflation numbers. Am not talking about the conjuring tricks that come out of Washington D.C.; but the actuality of having to live on the median NYC income of $51k or so per year. If you are single and able to hustle that number probably is fine; but you've got families of four or more trying to live on that wage.


The whole 80/20 "affordable" housing schemes are a scam. Not nearly enough units are ever going to be built in relation to the need, and de Boob's administration keeps cramming more and more protected groups into the mix for the limited number of units available. Adding homeless and those with poor credit/weak employment histories is all very well I suppose, but that just means more applicants for a finite number of units.


NYC economy like much of the USA is in a period of transformation. You have the technology/high skilled and or educated sector (who are highly compensated) doing well or growing, versus everyone else who is not. The jobs often created/available for the latter often are service, retail, hospitality and other things that don't pay very well.


Meanwhile back at the ranch COL in NYC keeps going up, and there are fewer and fewer options for "affordable" anything including housing. The vast and powerful forces of economic displacement caused by the influx of highly educated professionals into the City is literally pushing many others out.
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Old 11-27-2016, 08:22 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
4,408 posts, read 2,267,717 times
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80/20 is not a scam. Yes, it is not creating nearly enough to make any significant impact to housing costs but it is better than nothing.

I read somewhere before that the city needs somewhere like several hundred thousand new affordable units to relieve the shortage of affordable housing. With these programs,we're getting like a few thousand a year. At that rate, we would need 100 years just to reach that goal. Thus the shortage is persistent.

The city is not in the business of building so with these programs, the city is providing developers incentives to include these units in their projects. Unfortunately, the city's restrictive zoning does not allow the market to build as demand warrrants.

Just the other thread about the Sephora store opening in Harlem, I commented on how ridiculous the zoning is when you can only build four stories in Manhattan, on a major intersection with a subway station literally in front of the building. If you follow development in the city like I do, I can't even tell you how many one or two story buildings/houses are torn down just to be replaced by a three or four story one.

For those who don't understand what this means, it means that the city's zoning is keeping supply limited and driving housing prices up. For example, let's say there is a demand of 100 additional new housing units. If you can only build four units per building, you would need to raze 25 old builings just to build those 100 units (4 x 25 = 100).

Increase the size one can build to, say 50 units per building, then you'd just need to raze 2 buildings in order to build those 100 units (50 x 2 = 100).

Not only are you using the limited amount of land there is in this city more efficiently but you are also not razing and displacing as many people that are living in those older buildings.

And because of "economy of scale" each of those 100 units in the larger building will be cheaper as well. The developer can sell more units, the buyers get cheaper units, the city gets more housing units added to the housing stock, more affordable units for lower income people. A win for everyone.

BUT, instead the city is STUPID and puts in all types of restrictions on how much you can build, height limits, etc. Neighborhood groups and community boards fighting developments. Complaining to their city councilcritters about this development or that development being too big or too large and the stupid city listens to them. All this suffering caused by people fearing taller buildings and density.

Last edited by antinimby; 11-27-2016 at 08:41 PM..
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Old 11-27-2016, 08:35 PM
 
23,248 posts, read 16,056,508 times
Reputation: 8534
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxguyanese View Post
I did not vote for Hillary or Trump, however I do agree with some of Trump rhetoric. Again I feel sorry for masses of uneducated whites who have been duped by both Republicans and democrats in the past 40 years that has lead to where we are today! You probabkly think I'm #$^$##%$ stupid right? Of course I realize those such nuances are tough to fix. Overall anti, I agree with you to some extent. Plenty of educated people from NYC are heading to lower cost cities for opportunities. A CUNY degree from Baruch is not going to get you far at firm such as Edward Jones, but it may get one in. All I want to do is to fix income inequality, or have a solution to help those out so that they wont need to move to a low cost city where jobs can be scarce. Why would I reward failures? I'm just trying to make the game fair for some, that's all. You have a problem with that? Maybe you do! I just want to help folks to get a leg in the door. Nothing wrong with that. If not, institutions, firms, corporations should just move their business near to top college campuses. NYC is very competitive these days. I have a family friend who works on Wall street, earned a degree at a community college. His position now requires someone to have graduated at an Ivy League. Wait a minute. You actually think I want a non college educated man named tyquan to work as an investment banker? You think I'm stupiud or something? No. I just want those who are not as educated as a top grad to get a leg up in the employment field. Top firms, will always hire from Ivy Leagues and top private schools. I just want firms to help out with with reducing income inequality and in return will receive a tax credit. If not they can leave NYC and move to college towns.




NYC has always attracted low skill labor, but also high skilled labor. Both labors feed off of each other.




NYC is not the only city that has homeless issues. When I went to DC this past year, the Feds did a good job trying to hide the homeless. Homelessness is a big problem in DC. San Francsico also has a major homeless problem. One of the things I realized is that NYC, DC and SF have something in common. NYC DC and SF are part of major industries. These industries require skills, and top college certificates. NYC excels at media, Finance, DC excels at lobbying and politics and SF tech. These industries move billions of dollars a day across the country and world. These cities also attract educated persons from Ivy Leagues, to top private colleges like Georgetown, MIT and Stanford. DC, SF and NYC has some of the most expensive rents, mortgages, even in the surrounding suburbs are expensive. The more people move to these cities, rents will go up, mortgages will go up, jobs will become more competitive to obtain. The only solution will probably be for more and more city dwellers from elite urban areas to move inland or Down South. This will drive down costs, and free up job competition.

DC Homeless Population Spikes Amid National Drop | The Daily Caller



Texas has some of the strongest drop growth in years. Al Jazeera brought up a documentary about what economy should America follow, NY, California or Texas. Overall I agree with you. The only soluition is for those who are not educated or highly educated to head to lower cost areas. I'm not talking about Ohio, or upstate, but to places like Texas, Denver area, PHX area and such. However prices there will go up to, due to the influx of new comers. Also we must remember politics. The reason why NC, GA and Florida are becoming swing states is because demographics. Plenty of Northerners have moved into these states lately changing political dynamics little by little.


My advice is for those that want to get ahead in NYC and are from NYC. Good luck because most of life will be against you. Growing up in a single parent home will be one thing that can hurt a child. Expensive rent can be another, that means sources wont be allocated for such things such as tutoring to help a child's academics. Crowded schools is another problem, but also making it more competitive to get into a charter due to waiting list. Living in an socioeconomic depressed neighborhood, and having a name like Tyquan will only make it worse. Locals will have it worse because they are not well educated compared to Transplants, and those who live in ritzy neighborhoods like in Manhattan, Riverdale Bronx or Park Slope Brooklyn. Also civil service jobs will become more hard to obtain since private sector jobs are cutting benefits and so on, making civil service more attractive. You'd be surprise to see a sanitation worker with a Masters degree from NYU.


For those that are moving here. You are not lucky enough to live in an rent control, rent stabilized or rent subsidized apartment. These folks are living quite comfortable for the mean time. Rent here is expensive so plan on living with roomates, however there are far flung neighborhoods where rent is cheap, but these areas are devoid of any nightlife and takes more than an hour to get to work. If you want a job, make sure you have a degree from an Ivy League, top private school, or have an masters degree. Check to see if you have a college alumni club located in the city that can help you with employment. For example I just found out my college alumni does employment meet ups in San Diego, New Orleans, and DC. My college alumni does not host meet ups in NYC.
Definitely more people will have to move to the suburbs, other cities/states, or every country.

As for the civil servant jobs, automation is slowly replacing them. Look at how few token both clerks we have. One can already buy tickets for MNRR and LIRR on one's smartphone. As soon as they have the proper scanners in place, they will include this for the subway. It's now a lot easier to pay for taxes, permits, and other things online, order new driver's license or birth certificates online again meaning they need less civil servant workers.

Requiring top college certificates is a way of politely (or not politely depending on how you look at it) rejecting the majority of your applicants, and making it nearly impossible for poor people to stand a chance at getting certain jobs. It's discriminatory on the basis of class.
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Old 11-27-2016, 08:36 PM
 
23,248 posts, read 16,056,508 times
Reputation: 8534
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizzles View Post
The more we try to fix the problem the worst it will get. Even if you take housing out of the picture, many people simply aren't making the kinds of funds needed to live here comfortably, nor have the skillset to get the jobs needed to do so. I know I'll get called heartless, but many people need to head to lower COL places period if they want any hope of getting ahead. The other part of the picture as Antinimby pointed out is education. It's time for NYC to embrace school choice.
Not heartless at all. Many people I know personally have left for the South, upstate, PA, or left the country.
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Old 11-27-2016, 08:39 PM
 
23,248 posts, read 16,056,508 times
Reputation: 8534
Quote:
Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
80/20 is not a scam. Yes, it is not creating nearly enough to make any significant impact to housing costs but it is better than nothing.


And because of "economy of scale" each of those 100 units in the larger building will be cheaper as well. The developer can sell more units, the buyers get cheaper units, the city gets more housing units added to the housing stock, more affordable units fir lower income. A win for everyone.

BUT instead the city is STUPID and puts in all types of restrictions on how much you can build, height limits, etc. All this suffering caused by people fearing taller buildings and density.
Putting in those restrictions is a way of controlling the population of NYC. The high prices do deter some people from coming here, and it encourages others to leave. There is simply a limit as to how many people can comfortably live in a place. Put another few million in NYC and heaven forbid there is a major hurricane or earthquake. How will people be safely evacuated or helped in time?

NYC has not even fortified much of it's costs, so I don't even want to think how horrible a Katrina style hurricane would be.
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Old 11-27-2016, 08:43 PM
 
23,248 posts, read 16,056,508 times
Reputation: 8534
Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
New York City has a problem, and mayor de Boob along with current city council aren't helping; you cannot continue to encourage large numbers of illegals, poor or whatever to arrive in NYC, then fail to plan for where and how they will live.


Right now various economic insecurities are reaching up into the middle classes. Housing and other costs are rising while many paychecks are not, that or at least aren't keeping up with *real* inflation numbers. Am not talking about the conjuring tricks that come out of Washington D.C.; but the actuality of having to live on the median NYC income of $51k or so per year. If you are single and able to hustle that number probably is fine; but you've got families of four or more trying to live on that wage.


The whole 80/20 "affordable" housing schemes are a scam. Not nearly enough units are ever going to be built in relation to the need, and de Boob's administration keeps cramming more and more protected groups into the mix for the limited number of units available. Adding homeless and those with poor credit/weak employment histories is all very well I suppose, but that just means more applicants for a finite number of units.


NYC economy like much of the USA is in a period of transformation. You have the technology/high skilled and or educated sector (who are highly compensated) doing well or growing, versus everyone else who is not. The jobs often created/available for the latter often are service, retail, hospitality and other things that don't pay very well.


Meanwhile back at the ranch COL in NYC keeps going up, and there are fewer and fewer options for "affordable" anything including housing. The vast and powerful forces of economic displacement caused by the influx of highly educated professionals into the City is literally pushing many others out.
There's also no plan as to what happens to all these poor people when they get too old to work and they have no retirement benefits (haven't paid into social security or just get the minimum). On top of that the city has done almost nothing to fortify the coast. What happens if we get a category 5 hurricane? Years later the MTA still has not finished repairing all the damage from Sandy. If the ocean level rises just a few inches, even a weak hurricane like Sandy is going to screw up big parts of the city. Downtown Manhattan, Lower East Side, South Brooklyn, the Rockaways, and Howard Beach are DONE for long term. Upper Manhattan and the Bronx are high ground and safe, as for the interior of Brooklyn and Queens.

But the subway system would be destroyed by a real hurricane (think Katrina). Yet there's no serious planning for this. So it would be stupid for the city to build lots of new housing when they have no real plants to protect against climate change.
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Old 11-27-2016, 08:47 PM
 
Location: Confines of the 101 Precinct
19,125 posts, read 32,666,756 times
Reputation: 7568
Quote:
Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
80/20 is not a scam. Yes, it is not creating nearly enough to make any significant impact to housing costs but it is better than nothing.

I read somewhere before that the city needs somewhere like several hundred thousand new affordable units to relieve the shortage of affordable housing. With these programs,we're getting like a few thousand a year. At that rate, we would need 100 years just to reach that goal. Thus the shortage is persistent.

The city is not in the business of building so with these programs, the city is providing developers incentives to include these units in their projects. Unfortunately, the city's restrictive zoning does not allow the market to build as demand warrrants.

Just the other thread about the Sephora store opening in Harlem, I commented on how ridiculous the zoning is when you can only build four stories in Manhattan, on a major intersection with a subway station literally in front of the building. If you follow development in the city like I do, I can't even tell you how many one or two story buildings/houses are torn down just to be replaced by a three or four story one.

For those who don't understand what this means, it means that the city's zoning is keeping supply limited and driving housing prices up. For example, let's say there is a demand of 100 additional new housing units. If you can only build four units per building, you would need to raze 25 old builings just to build those 100 units (4 x 25 = 100).

Increase the size one can build to, say 50 units per building, then you'd just need to raze 2 buildings in order to build those 100 units (50 x 2 = 100).

Not only are you using the limited amount of land there is in this city more efficiently but you are also not razing and displacing as many people that are living in those older buildings.

And because of "economy of scale" each of those 100 units in the larger building will be cheaper as well. The developer can sell more units, the buyers get cheaper units, the city gets more housing units added to the housing stock, more affordable units for lower income people. A win for everyone.

BUT, instead the city is STUPID and puts in all types of restrictions on how much you can build, height limits, etc. Neighborhood groups and community boards fighting developments. Complaining to their city councilcritters about this development or that development being too big or too large and the stupid city listens to them. All this suffering caused by people fearing taller buildings and density.
Since you used the example of the Sephora store, it is in a C4-4 zone, which translates to an R7 for residential purposes. Max building height for an R7 is 80 feet. Just figured I would throw some facts out to supplement your post.

They've already started the process to re-zone East Harlem, so we will see 30 story buildings on Third Avenue before we're dead. Harlem proper is a bit more tricky IMO, due to its landmarked districts. Sephora is not in a landmarked district.
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Old 11-27-2016, 09:49 PM
 
23,248 posts, read 16,056,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
Since you used the example of the Sephora store, it is in a C4-4 zone, which translates to an R7 for residential purposes. Max building height for an R7 is 80 feet. Just figured I would throw some facts out to supplement your post.

They've already started the process to re-zone East Harlem, so we will see 30 story buildings on Third Avenue before we're dead. Harlem proper is a bit more tricky IMO, due to its landmarked districts. Sephora is not in a landmarked district.
I don't know how tall the building is, but there's a new tall building on the Washington Carver housing projects, that opened along with a big charter school.
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