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Old 11-27-2016, 10:09 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
4,407 posts, read 2,272,834 times
Reputation: 4870

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Putting in those restrictions is a way of controlling the population of NYC. The high prices do deter some people from coming here, and it encourages others to leave. There is simply a limit as to how many people can comfortably live in a place. Put another few million in NYC and heaven forbid there is a major hurricane or earthquake. How will people be safely evacuated or helped in time?

NYC has not even fortified much of it's costs, so I don't even want to think how horrible a Katrina style hurricane would be.
The zoning restrictions are molded mainly by NIMBY groups. City Planning takes input from community boards and anti-development groups during public meetings when they put through their zoning plans. There is a reason why some neighborhoods have high rises and others do not. Midtown and Downtown have skyscrapers but there is a valley in between that have very few tall buildings. It has nothing to do with living comfortably or safety evacuations. It is purely NIMBYism.

In addition, in 2007 the Bloomberg administration had put forth PlaNYC in anticipation of the city's projected population growth to over 9 million. This plan addresses the need for additional housing, infrastructure upgrade and climate change. de Blasio's administration has put out his own updated version as well.

Both of these have taken into consideration the necessary upgrades for the additional population growth.

9 or even 10 million is not that even that large by world standards. There are plenty of cities that are either as large or larger. To give you an idea, Tokyo is over 13 million. Same for Moscow. Shanghai, Sao Paulo, 20+ million.
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Old 11-27-2016, 11:21 PM
 
23,262 posts, read 16,076,440 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
The zoning restrictions are molded mainly by NIMBY groups. City Planning takes input from community boards and anti-development groups during public meetings when they put through their zoning plans. There is a reason why some neighborhoods have high rises and others do not. Midtown and Downtown have skyscrapers but there is a valley in between that have very few tall buildings. It has nothing to do with living comfortably or safety evacuations. It is purely NIMBYism.

In addition, in 2007 the Bloomberg administration had put forth PlaNYC in anticipation of the city's projected population growth to over 9 million. This plan addresses the need for additional housing, infrastructure upgrade and climate change. de Blasio's administration has put out his own updated version as well.

Both of these have taken into consideration the necessary upgrades for the additional population growth.

9 or even 10 million is not that even that large by world standards. There are plenty of cities that are either as large or larger. To give you an idea, Tokyo is over 13 million. Same for Moscow. Shanghai, Sao Paulo, 20+ million.
Mexico City has 26 million. But Mexico City also has MORE SPACE, and Mexico City is not vulnerable to being wiped out by a hurricane. Ditto Moscow, Sao Paulo, etc.

Plans? NYC has long put out grand plans. The Second Avenue Subway was once supposed to be a six track subway. Clearly that never happens. Who takes city plans seriously, unless they actually get funded and the construction work gets well underway.

There has not been a serious infrastructure upgrade to protect the city from even a weak hurricane like Sandy, much less a strong one like Katrina.

NYC should pray President Trump gives serious funding to infrastructure including protection against climate change and TRANSIT expansion. 4 new stops on the Q train, though good for UES residents, is nowhere near enough (the entire East Side needs more transit, as do parts of other boroughs).

As for nimbyism reas between midtown and downtown are residential, and residential areas with people who are at least middle class are always powerful enough to block developments they don't like. That's why it was easy to develop decayed industrial areas like Far Midtown West and West Chelsea, Manhattanville, LIC, Williamsburg, etc. If you live in an area, you're paying taxes and giving money to politicians you have a lot of influence, and you're not about to let some high rises be built just so some poor out of towners who likely don't need to be here can afford to live here. But this is true in any city in the nation.

But back to climate change and a category 5 hurricane, it would take NYC decades to fully recover from being with a category 5. Parts of the subway system still aren't over Sandy.
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Old 11-27-2016, 11:32 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
4,407 posts, read 2,272,834 times
Reputation: 4870
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Mexico City has 26 million. But Mexico City also has MORE SPACE, and Mexico City is not vulnerable to being wiped out by a hurricane. Ditto Moscow, Sao Paulo, etc.

Plans? NYC has long put out grand plans. The Second Avenue Subway was once supposed to be a six track subway. Clearly that never happens. Who takes city plans seriously, unless they actually get funded and the construction work gets well underway.

There has not been a serious infrastructure upgrade to protect the city from even a weak hurricane like Sandy, much less a strong one like Katrina.

NYC should pray President Trump gives serious funding to infrastructure including protection against climate change and TRANSIT expansion. 4 new stops on the Q train, though good for UES residents, is nowhere near enough (the entire East Side needs more transit, as do parts of other boroughs).

As for nimbyism reas between midtown and downtown are residential, and residential areas with people who are at least middle class are always powerful enough to block developments they don't like. That's why it was easy to develop decayed industrial areas like Far Midtown West and West Chelsea, Manhattanville, LIC, Williamsburg, etc. If you live in an area, you're paying taxes and giving money to politicians you have a lot of influence, and you're not about to let some high rises be built just so some poor out of towners who likely don't need to be here can afford to live here. But this is true in any city in the nation.

But back to climate change and a category 5 hurricane, it would take NYC decades to fully recover from being with a category 5. Parts of the subway system still aren't over Sandy.
Tokyo in addition to typhoons (their version of a hurricane) is also vulnerable to earthquakes and tsunamis. You don't see them putting in a limit of 8 million for that city. And if you are worried about hurricanes, then why even let NYC grow to the 8 million it is now. You should of stoppped it when it got to 100 people.

Or better yet, move all 8 million inland to Buffalo and rename it NYC.

BTW, hurricanes don't "wipe" anything out. New Orleans suffered a hurricane as devastating as any and last I checked, it is still standing and even gradually coming back.

Last edited by antinimby; 11-28-2016 at 12:05 AM..
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Old 11-28-2016, 12:02 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
4,407 posts, read 2,272,834 times
Reputation: 4870
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
As for nimbyism reas between midtown and downtown are residential, and residential areas with people who are at least middle class are always powerful enough to block developments they don't like. That's why it was easy to develop decayed industrial areas like Far Midtown West and West Chelsea, Manhattanville, LIC, Williamsburg, etc. If you live in an area, you're paying taxes and giving money to politicians you have a lot of influence, and you're not about to let some high rises be built just so some poor out of towners who likely don't need to be here can afford to live here. But this is true in any city in the nation.
The city shouldn't be yielding to a small number of self-serving people. Guess what? The out of towners that are prevented from living in prime Manhattan are going to the other poorer areas of Manhattan and outerboroughs and pricing out the folks there. It has city wide repercussions as we are seeing right now. You call it gentrification but the fact remains that NIMBYism is a cause.
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Old 11-28-2016, 12:25 AM
 
23,262 posts, read 16,076,440 times
Reputation: 8543
Quote:
Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
The city shouldn't be yielding to a small number of self-serving people. Guess what? The out of towners that are prevented from living in prime Manhattan are going to the other poorer areas of Manhattan and outerboroughs and pricing out the folks there. It has city wide repercussions as we are seeing right now. You call it gentrification but the fact remains that NIMBYism is a cause.
You can really only displace the poorest renters, but that only happens in a few prime areas. Contrary to popular belief MOST of BROOKLYN, and most of Queens are not gentrified, and ditto the Bronx and Staten Island. Unless they become hugely successful, transplants tend not to last too long in the current environment anyway.

And in those boroughs too, homeowners block development, as they have the political and economic clout.
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Old 11-28-2016, 12:29 AM
 
23,262 posts, read 16,076,440 times
Reputation: 8543
Quote:
Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
Tokyo in addition to typhoons (their version of a hurricane) is also vulnerable to earthquakes and tsunamis. You don't see them putting in a limit of 8 million for that city. And if you are worried about hurricanes, then why even let NYC grow to the 8 million it is now. You should of stoppped it when it got to 100 people.

Or better yet, move all 8 million inland to Buffalo and rename it NYC.

BTW, hurricanes don't "wipe" anything out. New Orleans suffered a hurricane as devastating as any and last I checked, it is still standing and even gradually coming back.
It's taking decades for NO to recover. Katrina was 11 years ago. And NO did not have an underground subway that would cost tens of billions of dollars to fix.

Holland, a low lying country has built barriers to the ocean, and has even reclaimed land. Now since we know climate change and rising oceans (plus more frequent hurricanes) is a greater risk, NYC should be doing that. But it won't.

Protecting what we have (which is going to cost a fantastic amount of resources) is much more important than trying to make NYC affordable to some transplant whose dream it is to come to NYC (and many of who will be out in a year or so). The sense of entitlement of some people is ridiculous. You are not entitled to live somewhere just because you want to. If you're able to support yourself, fine. If not, you will live where you can AFFORD. It's not your god given right to live in the West Village or Tribeca or Soho.
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Old 11-28-2016, 02:37 AM
 
Location: San Diego
230 posts, read 108,366 times
Reputation: 323
I agree with your root cause theory. The schools today have taken out all the vocational education away from students. Having any type of government invoking more regulations hasn't worked and won't work unless you desire a mindless society. If the schools aren't training people for jobs, then who is?
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Old 11-28-2016, 04:54 AM
 
196 posts, read 104,054 times
Reputation: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxguyanese View Post
This is very true. Two of my colleagues don't have savings accounts. All their finances is on checking account. One small step and they are finished. Also they both are white and race has nothing to do with it.






Immigrants have no shame. They are willing to make a buck off the side, apply for welfare and snap, and still live comfortable. Asians are not the only ones who do such. Russian Jews do it in Brooklyn as well as some Hispanic and even Africans too. Like I said, one mans garbage is another mans treasure.


The end paragraph is true. I have been saying this as well as others such as NYwriterdude. One thing is this, that NYC no longer creates talent locally. The city used to create plenty of local talent, but that talent did not do much for the city when it went economically went under in the 70s. THe city learned its lesson and instead it attracts talent instead of creating talent. I do agree that native New Yorkers are not well heeled enough for certain jobs that are competitive. This past year I was in a professional work group. A group of 7. I was the only native New Yorker. One was an H1b visa Indian, another was from Missouri Indian, 2 were from the Midwest, and the other was from Long Island who owned his truck business. These folks made so much money here, double or triple from what I make. These folks have no intentions on moving back to where they are from. Cities such as DC, SF and NYC. These such cities are elite cities, and employers are competitive and want to keep up with the growing demands of the market. Also employers pluck students out of top schools to work in ciites like DC, NYC and SF. If not top schools, one must be highly skilled, and plenty of New Yorkers are not skilled compared to Transplants.


If I was mayor, and if I was running on a populist platform. I would pass a law, in conjunction with city council. To reduce income inequality in NYC. Fortune 500 business, firms, insurance companies, real estate and such will have to go to public colleges and less stellar named college for candidates to hire in and around the 5 boroughs. These companies also needs to hire a certain percentage of local residents. If such demands are met, companies, firms and corporations will receive a tax abatement from the city. If the such business don't want to participate? I believe in the free market, and I believe in American Judeo/Anglo Saxon capitalism that NYC is founded on. I will let such firms, companies and corporations the right to move operations out of NYC so that they can be closer to talent pools that can drive their business. Places like the Midwest and upstate need jobs especially since factories in reality are never coming back!


80 percent of NYC transplant population have a college degree or higher, more than average than the American average. ON the flip side, plenty of native whites, native blacks and native Hispanics can not compete against Transplants, thus resulting many to leave the area all together.


https://nextcity.org/daily/entry/rep...underpaid-jobs
Skilled trades I believe still pay well in NYC, electrician, plumber, hvac, steel workers.

I agree though you just cant show up in NYC or anywhere else for that matter without a degree or technical trade, how would you earn much without any skill?
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Old 11-28-2016, 07:18 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
4,407 posts, read 2,272,834 times
Reputation: 4870
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
It's taking decades for NO to recover. Katrina was 11 years ago. And NO did not have an underground subway that would cost tens of billions of dollars to fix.

Holland, a low lying country has built barriers to the ocean, and has even reclaimed land. Now since we know climate change and rising oceans (plus more frequent hurricanes) is a greater risk, NYC should be doing that. But it won't.

Protecting what we have (which is going to cost a fantastic amount of resources) is much more important than trying to make NYC affordable to some transplant whose dream it is to come to NYC (and many of who will be out in a year or so). The sense of entitlement of some people is ridiculous. You are not entitled to live somewhere just because you want to. If you're able to support yourself, fine. If not, you will live where you can AFFORD. It's not your god given right to live in the West Village or Tribeca or Soho.
The same thing is going to happen to the subway whether there is one person living in the city or a billion. You are just finding silly reasons to argue. I guess that's what you do. I've never heard of anyone, not even NIMBYs fighting any project has ever brought up hurricanes as a justification and there are groups whose sole cause is to fight development (e.g. GVSHP). I'm certain they would use that as a reason if it wasn't laughable and we've heard some crazy ones, like some lady's cat wouldn't get sunlight because 53W53 is 1200 feet instead of 1050 feet tall.

Yes, it is not a god given right to live in Greenwich Village or SoHo but it is also not a god given right for someone to demand that person next door can only build on his land 5 stories instead of 15.

Many parts of Manhattan is artificially underbuilt. One of the solution to the housing crisis is to allow for greater densities within Manhattan, where many of the jobs are. This will reduce commute times and automobile traffic as people can live closer to their jobs. With higher ridership and thus higher revenue, MTA will be in a better position financially to make improvements to the subway system that will not only improve efficiency but protect it from storms and climate change.

Last edited by antinimby; 11-28-2016 at 07:33 AM..
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Old 11-28-2016, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Bronx
14,821 posts, read 17,423,298 times
Reputation: 7525
Quote:
Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
The same thing is going to happen to the subway whether there is one person living in the city or a billion. You are just finding silly reasons to argue. I guess that's what you do. I've never heard of anyone, not even NIMBYs fighting any project has ever brought up hurricanes as a justification and there are groups whose sole cause is to fight development (e.g. GVSHP). I'm certain they would use that as a reason if it wasn't laughable and we've heard some crazy ones, like some lady's cat wouldn't get sunlight because 53W53 is 1200 feet instead of 1050 feet tall.

Yes, it is not a god given right to live in Greenwich Village or SoHo but it is also not a god given right for someone to demand that person next door can only build on his land 5 stories instead of 15.

Many parts of Manhattan is artificially underbuilt. One of the solution to the housing crisis is to allow for greater densities within Manhattan, where many of the jobs are. This will reduce commute times and automobile traffic as people can live closer to their jobs. With higher ridership and thus higher revenue, MTA will be in a better position financially to make improvements to the subway system that will not only improve efficiency but protect it from storms and climate change.
Lol at the last paragraph.
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