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Old 12-08-2016, 02:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kefir King View Post
We have a "vacuum steam" system. I had never heard of it before but if you open a line it sucks air IN. It is a lower temperature steam system.
Pretty cool, with a refrigerator sized vacuum pump.


Apartment on Commerce Street was run of the mill steam system with a tightwad landlord. We were on the top floor and the boiler kicked on at 6 AM but JUST as the heat hit our radiator it cycled off. So I took to removing the valve to get the steam up faster.


But steam can be quite dangerous...I burned my hand once and the pain is UNBELIEVABLE. (Poor kids.)
Once I forgot to put it back and we left.
Coming home it was a rain forest with paint peeling off the ceiling and sopping walls.
We moved soon after...landlord was happy to see rent controlled tenants moving so no ramifications.


But steam is dangerous and steam burns are unbelievably painful, I once burned my hand. My heart goes out to those two kids.
That piping/radiator system must have been a corroded mess to blow apart like that.

Vacuum/vapor steam heating was all the rage from about the late 1800's going through a good part of 1900's. Much of this had to do with how boilers were fired; using coal.


Unlike modern boilers fired with oil or gas where the burners are either on or off; coal fires are kept going pretty much 24/7. What changes is how live the fire is; when steam is wanted you keep the fire alive with air, and when it is not you starve the fire for air. If steam will not be needed for a long time (such as over night) you "bank" the fire.


Vacuum/vapor systems were meant to extract every single bit of heating energy from coal (which cost dear back then since it was the dominate source of heat). As the vacuum is created it actually causes the fire in boiler to rise creating "boiling" at even <212F.


Other benefit of vacuum/vapor systems is that when properly installed, running and maintained they are nearly silent. It also provides the smooth even heat associated with hot water.


As coal was phased out and replaced by burners fired with oil or gas the benefits of vapor/steam heating sort of faded out of the picture. However many, many systems were installed in private homes, commercial and residential buildings that remain in place. This even as the original boilers often long have been replaced and or other changes to the system.


Steam Heating Systems |
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Old 12-08-2016, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Pelham Parkway,The Bronx
8,389 posts, read 19,632,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macnyc2003 View Post
Suffocation actually makes sense, because if the babies were being burned by the steam, it would have been very painful, and they would have been crying at the top of their lungs. That would have woken up their father, who was asleep in another room.
I don't know. In news reports neighbors who saw the bodies coming out said both kids were a raw oozing purple. Sounds like they were scalded.Maybe ( hopefully) they suffocated before being cooked.
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Old 12-08-2016, 04:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog2 View Post
I don't know. In news reports neighbors who saw the bodies coming out said both kids were a raw oozing purple. Sounds like they were scalded.Maybe ( hopefully) they suffocated before being cooked.


If those poor wee babies were anywhere near a steam fed radiator when it blew, then yes, one assumes they were scalded and very badly. Mayor calls fatal radiator explosion


When will the City learn and stop putting families, especially those with children in these vermin infested death traps? For the billions the NYC and NYS shells out to provide temporary and or permanent housing for homeless why is it they continuously rent from the lowest slumlords?
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Old 12-08-2016, 04:57 PM
 
18,285 posts, read 11,673,706 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macnyc2003 View Post
Suffocation actually makes sense, because if the babies were being burned by the steam, it would have been very painful, and they would have been crying at the top of their lungs. That would have woken up their father, who was asleep in another room.


No, not necessarily true.


First infants, children and even teenagers fall into a much deeper sleep than adults. This is partly a response to the active growing their bodies are going through.


Next have you actually ever been near or seen a steam pipe or whatever when it blows/malfunctions? If you are awake that is one thing, but sleeping I could blast you with hot steam and you'd suffer major burns and likely still not wake up.


Persons have been found burnt to death in their beds (say after falling asleep smoking a cigarette), which also disproves your theory. If they were aware of the intense pain caused by being consumed by flames they would at least attempt to move. Of course in the case of fire you have smoke inhalation which may cause death and or total loss of awareness.


Other thing to remember is the mother left her babies asleep in that bedroom and closed the door. It must have been like an oven inside when that radiator malfunctioned.
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Old 12-08-2016, 05:58 PM
 
Location: Confines of the 101 Precinct
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When these old relics aren't kept up properly through the years, you get situations like this.

FYI - the building was built in 1929. 87 year old building.
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Old 12-08-2016, 07:40 PM
 
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That happened because a slumlord runs the building and is a tight wad with repairs.

I have experienced a similar accident in my rent controlled apartment. Some apartments are way too hot in the winter, and some rooms wont have a radiator, just a shut valve, because it is too hot! If that valve is open, even a little bit, when the heat comes on, the room gets flooded with hot steam. very dangerous! I had to use a fan to blow the steam out and scramble to shut the valve off. Hot steam will leave the walls "sweating" and hot moisture all over the rooms contents.

If this is what happened to the children, possibly sleeping or playing in the room, they would have been helpless and confused, standing in the middle of a steam bath. horrible, and sad. I feel so sad for the loss of life.
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Old 12-09-2016, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Manhattan
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Quote:
The lower the steam pressure is, the faster it can move

That seems to defy logic.
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Old 12-09-2016, 02:55 PM
 
18,285 posts, read 11,673,706 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kefir King View Post
That seems to defy logic.

No, it doesn't, just simple laws of physics.


Did you bother reading any of the links I posted? It is made clear wherein and elsewhere why you don't need high pressure to heat buildings. Again the Empire State building is heated at or less 3psi.




"Steam is a gas, just like air. When you compress it, it just naturally takes up less space. The amazing thing is that it also begins to move more slowly. It's not as "large," so It can afford to move more slowly. Strange as it may seem, it takes longer for high-pressure steam to get out to the radiators than it does for low-pressure steam. Also,high-pressure steam, since it's more tightly packed, will call more water out of the boiler than low-pressure steam. This can lead to low-water problems back at the boiler."


https://heatinghelp.com/systems-help...eating-primer/


Ages ago when steam boilers were first being installed in buildings many of them blew. Some rocketed across town, others just took out an entire building (or half block).


In addition to the invention and addition of safety features on boilers such as low water level cutoffs, it was found you don't need high pressure to heat buildings. This is why the dominant boiler systems for heating residential or commercial buildings are fire tube boilers as opposed to water tube boilers.


Basically and in simplest terms you want low pressure steam when heating is the primary goal. OTOH high pressure is called for when the steam has to do work (ships, generate electricity, etc....)
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Old 12-10-2016, 01:06 PM
 
1,007 posts, read 581,169 times
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These slumlords are out of control...
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Old 12-10-2016, 03:45 PM
 
1,840 posts, read 1,692,158 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ryu View Post
no offense but those two looked like they had no business having kids..

RIP little ones.
Curtis Sliwa said yesterday on his radio show that the parents were addicts (heroin I think) and moved here from Maine for the cheap dope and free housing. I don't know where he got his information but if true, doesn't the city check out the family situation before providing them housing? Should the parents have had custody if they were essentially homeless drug addicts from out of state?

Edit: Sliwa must have gotten his information from this story in the Post. The parents are drug addicts with multiple child welfare cases against them and the father with a criminal record. Not to excuse the faulty radiator but the parents should not have had custody. If they weren't addicts maybe the father would have been awake at 10 in the morning.

http://nypost.com/2016/12/08/baby-si...that-exploded/

Last edited by martinjsxx; 12-10-2016 at 03:56 PM..
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