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Old 12-11-2016, 05:48 AM
 
3,447 posts, read 3,519,654 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal25 View Post
End subsidized housing and let market forces find an equilibrium. Rent controls and affordable housing discourage new construction and limit supply. Subsidized housing really just allows employers to pay salaries that are below what the market would bear otherwise.

I'll never understand why rural coal miners are ignorant hillbillies that have failed to prepare themselves for a 21st century economy while poor city dwellers are noble workers deserving of subsidization.
While I don't think this will put the world in line, it's the most refreshing and realistic post to wake up to.

"Affordable Housing" is such a scam term. What does that make market rate... Unaffordable housing?
San Francisco calls their subsidized units BMR. Below-Market-Rate apartments.

How can any rational city leader think that lotteries are the best way to allocate housing? ... and if so, why only 20%?
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Old 12-11-2016, 06:05 AM
 
18,288 posts, read 11,673,706 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal25 View Post
End subsidized housing and let market forces find an equilibrium. Rent controls and affordable housing discourage new construction and limit supply. Subsidized housing really just allows employers to pay salaries that are below what the market would bear otherwise.

I'll never understand why rural coal miners are ignorant hillbillies that have failed to prepare themselves for a 21st century economy while poor city dwellers are noble workers deserving of subsidization.

You will never end rent control laws in New York City; it just won't happen, forget about it, never, ever.


The last major city to end rent control laws was Boston, MA, and what happened is exactly what those here warn about; within short time the place became mostly for the wealthy as rents soared. Even middle class persons like nurses, teachers, municipal workers, etc.... found it difficult to find housing they could afford. On the bright side Boston's housing stock improved dramatically as landlords again had incentive to put money into their properties.


There isn't an easy way to end rent control laws in NYC that does not have a perverse incentive for landlords to try by any means necessary to get current tenants out. NYC already has a huge homeless problem including the middle aged and elderly. You end rent protections and that will only grow as no small number of middle aged and seniors have literally no place else to go. Worse they are likely the ones living in apartments with below market rents.
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Old 12-11-2016, 06:06 AM
 
Location: Manhattan
20,147 posts, read 26,444,908 times
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So then,
make every effort to remove restraints on profits. And then eliminate the unions.
God forbid, workers, who actually BUILD the apartment towers, should get any piece of the pie.
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Old 12-11-2016, 07:50 AM
 
328 posts, read 230,536 times
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One gradual approach to ending rent regulation would be to deregulate each apartment when the current leaseholder dies or moves. Family members would not be allowed to "inherit" regulated leases. This would allow people and the market plenty of time to adjust.
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Old 12-11-2016, 08:20 AM
 
18,288 posts, read 11,673,706 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fluttereagle View Post
One gradual approach to ending rent regulation would be to deregulate each apartment when the current leaseholder dies or moves. Family members would not be allowed to "inherit" regulated leases. This would allow people and the market plenty of time to adjust.


Again then you are creating incentives for a LL to get a tenant to "move". As for succession rights, some of that could be tightened up. Gays can marry now so much of the "other family members" that were created to get around that they couldn't can and should be eliminated. Other than a spouse (who had married and been living in the apartment for a certain period of time), and children who grew up in same the rest of that list should be culled.
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Old 12-11-2016, 12:17 PM
 
3,447 posts, read 3,519,654 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
You will never end rent control laws in New York City; it just won't happen, forget about it, never, ever.


The last major city to end rent control laws was Boston, MA, and what happened is exactly what those here warn about; within short time the place became mostly for the wealthy as rents soared. Even middle class persons like nurses, teachers, municipal workers, etc.... found it difficult to find housing they could afford. On the bright side Boston's housing stock improved dramatically as landlords again had incentive to put money into their properties.


There isn't an easy way to end rent control laws in NYC that does not have a perverse incentive for landlords to try by any means necessary to get current tenants out. NYC already has a huge homeless problem including the middle aged and elderly. You end rent protections and that will only grow as no small number of middle aged and seniors have literally no place else to go. Worse they are likely the ones living in apartments with below market rents.
Saying things wont ever happen is very much a New York attitude to accept broken government as a way of life.

Just valuate the savings RC/RS 80/20 passes to a tenant. Give it to them in a taxable stipend.
Then continue to charge market rate.

Then we finally see what the system -really- is doing, while not perverting the listed costs of housing.
The taxpayers of NYC are giving a slim few benefits of thousands to tens of thousands of dollars a year, because of seniority or essentially a city paid lottery system.

The tenants can move at will and take their money with them requiring landlords to remain slightly competitive.

If a horrible tenant gets evicted. They keep their stipend and look elsewhere for housing.

It's essentially a system quite similar to Section 8 housing.

We have just glorified RC/RS and "Affordable Housing" so that recipients

A.) Don't recognize it's government welfare.
B.) Act entitled by it.


Does anyone not find it strange that in the majority of the country this practice of Rent Favor by Lotto or Seniority is illegal?
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Old 12-11-2016, 12:46 PM
 
132 posts, read 109,817 times
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Anyone who believes rent control keeps housing affordable hasn't sat through the simplest of economics classes.

Allowing free reign for developers while using the increased property tax revenue to care for the displaced would be the simplest route.
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Old 12-11-2016, 12:54 PM
 
23,262 posts, read 16,076,440 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wawaweewa View Post
How do you know that the profits are there? I'm genuinely curious.
Also, what do you consider affordable, market rate?

Furthermore, if you're going to flood the market with housing, you think the people who bought (now way overvalued) property are just going to sit back? How will all this new housing effect existing properties and their tenants?



I agree that we need a lot more housing but I don't think there's any appetite from developers to build true market rate. The city government would have to make it very attractive to do so.
The new housing would potentially block sunlight from views that people already paid considerable amounts of money for. There's other issues too, such as crowding.

Property owners have the clout to push for zoning restrictions, and they successfully keep them in place. The people clamoring for all this new housing to supposedly lower rents are renters with no hope of buying in NYC. The problem rents with no hope of buying AND who aren't in some sort of rent regulated unit are not much of a base for NYC. They come and go all the time. The reality is people have to live where they can afford, and there's always new people to move into NYC to replace those who left.
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Old 12-11-2016, 12:58 PM
 
23,262 posts, read 16,076,440 times
Reputation: 8543
Quote:
Originally Posted by WithDisp View Post

The tenants can move at will and take their money with them requiring landlords to remain slightly competitive.

If a horrible tenant gets evicted. They keep their stipend and look elsewhere for housing.

It's essentially a system quite similar to Section 8 housing.

We have just glorified RC/RS and "Affordable Housing" so that recipients

A.) Don't recognize it's government welfare.
B.) Act entitled by it.



Does anyone not find it strange that in the majority of the country this practice of Rent Favor by Lotto or Seniority is illegal?
RC/RS can also be looked at in another way. RC/RS, along with high market rate rents actually control the population of NYC by keeping rents high. It's really why there's such opposition to them by people on this thread, as I suspect many of the transplants here are hysterical that they'll never be able to get that kind of deal. Basically NYC is a city that favors you if you were born here ,and if your family has been living here for generations, and RC/RS is one way it shows. The major property owners or figures in real estate have been established here for multiple generations as well, and to really break in a significant way you have to be really good.

Thus the saying goes, if you can make it in NYC you can make it anywhere. It's been true for a long time, and it will always be true.
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Old 12-12-2016, 03:59 AM
 
3,447 posts, read 3,519,654 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
RC/RS can also be looked at in another way. RC/RS, along with high market rate rents actually control the population of NYC by keeping rents high. It's really why there's such opposition to them by people on this thread, as I suspect many of the transplants here are hysterical that they'll never be able to get that kind of deal. Basically NYC is a city that favors you if you were born here ,and if your family has been living here for generations, and RC/RS is one way it shows. The major property owners or figures in real estate have been established here for multiple generations as well, and to really break in a significant way you have to be really good.

Thus the saying goes, if you can make it in NYC you can make it anywhere. It's been true for a long time, and it will always be true.
As RC/RS are state laws, the basis for that is ridiculous.
Where one is born has little to no bearing on their current value to a city they live in.

The 'transplants' if 'hysterical' are likely so because from a logistical standpoint and from the ways-of-the-world of nearly every other city in the country, NYC's rules make little sense.


Which takes me to the statement.... no, if some make it in NYC- they may not be able to make it anywhere else. As a housing lottery, forced renewal from a RC/RS landlord or NYCHA subsidized rent wont translate other places.
Hence the horde of New Yorkers living there who are too poor to leave.
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