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Old 12-25-2016, 02:37 PM
 
2,681 posts, read 3,572,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoogeyDownDweller View Post
This is bull. NYS and NYC can tax the wealthy where they live
NYC cannot tax them unless they live or work in NYC, hence why it's a good thing gentrification is happening.

Quote:
....and then Invest it in poor and working class neighborhoods. That's the price they pay for leeching off of us and all of hard work we do while they sit back producing nothing for society but stock and real estate speculation.
The stock and real estate specualtion is what enables America to have the worlds strongest economy. NY without Wall St/Corporate HQs/Silicon Alley would have zero money to provide all the services it does.

The rich need the poor. The poor need the rich. We're all in this boat together and the sooner we begin seeing each other as human beings and not whatever label we've made up for those not like ourselves the more society can actually advance.
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Old 12-25-2016, 02:43 PM
 
23,247 posts, read 16,049,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizzles View Post
NYC cannot tax them unless they live or work in NYC, hence why it's a good thing gentrification is happening.



The stock and real estate specualtion is what enables America to have the worlds strongest economy. NY without Wall St/Corporate HQs/Silicon Alley would have zero money to provide all the services it does.

The rich need the poor. The poor need the rich. We're all in this boat together and the sooner we begin seeing each other as human beings and not whatever label we've made up for those not like ourselves the more society can actually advance.
Few neighborhoods are gentrifying, as not enough rich really want to commit living in NYC. Buying a condo in a nice part of town doesn't mean you are a NYS resident, or even an US citizen. So NYC may not be able to tax you beyond the property taxes on your property.

The "services" it provides to a poor a big part of what has turned huge parts into the city into massive ghettoes, as you have major welfare dependency among huge sectors of the population. That is not good, and has fostered some very bad habits.
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Old 12-25-2016, 06:56 PM
 
3,333 posts, read 3,280,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Not really. Harlem is still a ghetto, with major issues that poor neighborhoods have. Some white people who can't afford nicer neighborhoods moving into doesn't change that.

New York Times, DNAInfo, and other news sources exaggerate both the demographic change and the amenities in Harlem.

And they downplay the crime, noise, busted up poorly maintained buildings, etc.

There was more than one shooting very close to my BLOCK! I see the kids out on the street getting arrested for this thing and that thing (to get it out soon). I on my way to classes at Columbia l passed the NYCHA's every day, and yeah Harlem has SROs, shelters, and other social service housing which means the neighborhood has a huge poor population which will not go away anytime soon.

There are good deals on people purchasing co-ops or Brownstones, and those prices are going up, but let's not pretend that's anywhere near enough to completely transform the neighborhood.

I'm also a 6'2" bearded black guy. While I do come and go at any hour of the night, I can't say all groups of people will necessarily feel comfortable doing this in the neighborhood. Particularly because in Harlem fashion one will find large groups of people hanging outside, especially when it is warm. I do think that there are some white people who can tolerate this, but there are others who can't. In short, Harlem is not completely gentrifying any time soon.

On the West side you do get some nice stores, bars, restaurants, but this is because of the neighborhood academic institutions.
Of course Harlem still has major issues and the neighborhood is not completely transformed by any means.
I don't think it will eve be "completely" transformed before the next major downturn in the NYC/US economy.

On the other hand, before being 'completely' transformed a neighborhood goes through many smaller iterations.

I grew up in NYC (Brooklyn) and dangerous neighborhoods 20 years ago as opposed to now simply can't be compared. The level of crime, drugs, and general "scariness" is much, much, much lower.

I remember when my father and I were driving up to Binghamton for my Freshman year and we stopped at red light in Bed-Stuy during the afternoon. This was 2003. Five or six dudes who were hanging on the corner started to approach the car. My father gunned the engine and ran the red. lol This ain't nearly the same NYC my friend.

There are ****ing clueless transplant whites in Bed-Stuy and Bushwich for ****s sake. Million dollar condos are going up in Bed-Stuy. I never thought I'd see the day. For native white Brooklyn folks Bed-Stuy was the epitome of hood.


When you have 1BD apartments going for $2-$3K in Harlem, ghetto isn't the correct characterization. I've walked on Lexington passed all those housing projects multiple times at night and I never once felt the least bit uncomfortable. I got a few looks but nothing that made me take a detour.

I've been actually harassed on Ralph Ave near Flatbush Ave, a few miles from my parents home in Bergen Beach and nobody would characterize that as the ghetto. lol

Last edited by wawaweewa; 12-25-2016 at 07:08 PM..
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Old 12-25-2016, 07:20 PM
 
2,681 posts, read 3,572,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Few neighborhoods are gentrifying, as not enough rich really want to commit living in NYC. Buying a condo in a nice part of town doesn't mean you are a NYS resident, or even an US citizen. So NYC may not be able to tax you beyond the property taxes on your property.
Property taxes are a huge part of NYC funding, so in that sense the city still gets it's share.

Quote:
The "services" it provides to a poor a big part of what has turned huge parts into the city into massive ghettoes, as you have major welfare dependency among huge sectors of the population. That is not good, and has fostered some very bad habits.
It boils down to the "hand-up" versus "hand-out" argument. NYC is too focused on "hand-outs". If more programs were turned towards getting people into self-sufficency it'd be a different story. I agree with your overall point though.
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Old 12-25-2016, 08:07 PM
 
849 posts, read 451,498 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wawaweewa View Post
When you have 1BD apartments going for $2-$3K in Harlem, ghetto isn't the correct characterization. I've walked on Lexington passed all those housing projects multiple times at night and I never once felt the least bit uncomfortable. I got a few looks but nothing that made me take a detour.
Of course it doesn't compare to bedstuy, but Harlem, especially the part with tons of projects around lex/par ave and 114th, will be ghetto no matter how many 2.5k 1 bedroom luxury buildings go up because the projects cannot be removed. You'll just have a bunch of well-off people living in the ghetto. Maybe it will become way safer, but it'll still be dirty and have crappy dollar stores etc.
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Old 12-25-2016, 08:13 PM
 
Location: Behind You!
1,949 posts, read 3,322,886 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by averysgore View Post
Am I right that most white gentrifiers WANT to live in a diverse neighborhood rather than a majority-white neighborhood?
Seeing as how "gentrification" is literally white people pricing minorities out of their own area's I have to go with NO, that's not what they want!

If they wanted to live in a "diverse" neighborhood, then they'd do just that.
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Old 12-25-2016, 09:58 PM
 
3,333 posts, read 3,280,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iammax View Post
Of course it doesn't compare to bedstuy, but Harlem, especially the part with tons of projects around lex/par ave and 114th, will be ghetto no matter how many 2.5k 1 bedroom luxury buildings go up because the projects cannot be removed. You'll just have a bunch of well-off people living in the ghetto. Maybe it will become way safer, but it'll still be dirty and have crappy dollar stores etc.
Housing projects aren't going anywhere but what's your point? Chelsea has $10MM+ condos within walking distance of the projects. The same with Red Hook, Williamsburgh, the LES, the UES,etc.

It's not well off people living in the ghetto. It's projects existing within a well-off neighborhood. We've seen the same scenario play out over and over again.
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Old 12-25-2016, 11:16 PM
 
849 posts, read 451,498 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wawaweewa View Post
Housing projects aren't going anywhere but what's your point? Chelsea has $10MM+ condos within walking distance of the projects. The same with Red Hook, Williamsburgh, the LES, the UES,etc.

It's not well off people living in the ghetto. It's projects existing within a well-off neighborhood. We've seen the same scenario play out over and over again.
Chelsea has a few projects. East Harlem is about 30% projects, way too many for it to end up like chelsea. It looks quite dramatic on a map.
https://data.cityofnewyork.us/Housin...i9rv-hdr5/data
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Old 12-26-2016, 04:50 PM
 
11,493 posts, read 5,547,302 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snatale1 View Post
Seeing as how "gentrification" is literally white people pricing minorities out of their own area's I have to go with NO, that's not what they want!

If they wanted to live in a "diverse" neighborhood, then they'd do just that.
Nobody moves somewhere with the intention of pricing out minorities. The landlords keep raising the rents as much as they can because they want to make as much money as they can, and as a neighborhood becomes more desirable, the landlords can get away with charging more.

And not all minorities are lifelong residents of a neighborhood, many are immigrants or came from somewhere else at some point.
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Old 12-27-2016, 06:12 AM
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
5,559 posts, read 5,360,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slackercruster View Post
In the Rustbelt where I live they are just getting round to gentrification.

https://danielteolijr.files.wordpres...d-teoli-jr.jpg

Locally the rents have skyrocketed. I'd say it is as good thing except I wonder where the poor people go to live? My state is one of the lowest rated in the country and is getting unaffordable. Don't know if there is anyplace else to move to that would be affordable.

Are you happy with the gentrification process in NYC?
Poor people end up living out in the suburbs somewhere.
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