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Old 01-04-2017, 12:40 PM
 
6,963 posts, read 5,444,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
There's major issues with the education itself. I went to two top universities, .


Did you do an MBA or Law? I don't think that people who go to those very expensive schools want to end up making what some one in a deli does, and Harvard has a very strong alumni network that is available to at least some of its graduates.


So I use this as an example.


1. It removes those people who are less focused on high incomes, and more motivated towards social justice.


2. It removes the usual excuses that our "black conservative" is peddling that negroes are lazy and shiftless and that those who aren't are GOP lovers who think that Donald Trump is the best thing that happened.
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Old 01-04-2017, 12:44 PM
 
6,963 posts, read 5,444,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anonimuso View Post
Your example of how connections matter fly in the face of the facts. Facebook didn't get money because Zuckerberg had 'connections', .


In fact Zuckerberg did have connections which he was able to leverage when he did his "ask". You do know that many requests for financing are turned down.


And don't claim that it was the brilliance of his idea. When it started it wasn't obvious that the Facebook concept was workable, and in fact several earlier ones didn't succeed.
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Old 01-04-2017, 12:48 PM
 
6,963 posts, read 5,444,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post

Having an old college buddy that you KNOW and TRUST as opposed to a strange may makes one more likely to take that telephone call or read that e-mail, or seriously evaluate that proposal.

.


In fact the biggest benefit of Harvard, Stanford, Yale, Wharton (NOT Columbia or NYU) is that they have alumni networks which actually work well for those who graduate. Not necessarily equally, as some will always have more access, or a greater ability to leverage than others.




But surely a graduate from Harvard B or Law school has a huge leg up over some one with an Masters in Social Work from Hunter College.
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Old 01-05-2017, 01:28 AM
 
785 posts, read 345,253 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
If every poor person went out and got a college degree, all that means is a college degree would be worthless as you'd have graduates working in supermarkets, restaurants, driving Uber's etc. To a degree that is ALREADY true. There is no population that has the majority of people going to college. I stand by what I said, education alone cannot solve the problems of urban Black people.

Zuckberburg got the money in part because of people he knew, and he even had the earlier FRIENDS he collaborated on.

Having an old college buddy that you KNOW and TRUST as opposed to a strange may makes one more likely to take that telephone call or read that e-mail, or seriously evaluate that proposal.

Oh but there's a huge push beyond liberals for compassion for suburban white junkies. Obviously there's no great rush to send their relatives, friends, neighborhoods, and other people just like them to jail.

Even if you removed race as a factor, this never has and this never will be a fair world. Someone will always get preference over the next person, and we don't have equal access to the same resources or social networks. The playing field is not level even in places where everyone is of the same race and race is not a factor.

Re: Civil service and the military, a number of civil service jobs require degrees and those that don't require you to pass certain examinations. In order to be able to join the military, they give you tests as well. You cannot be illiterate and join the military or get a civil service job.
I never said that education alone can solve the problems of black people. I said that education, hard work, and parental involvement would be a good way to start solving those problems. There are other things that would help, but those are ones that black communities can start working on themselves without help from anyone else.

You have nothing to back up your claim that Mark Zuckerberg used his 'connections' to get funding for Facebook. All evidence points to the contrary. We're not talking about 'friends' who helped him create the site. That's not the kind of connection we are talking about and you know it. We're talking about the financial investment that allowed Facebook to become what it is today. Zuckerberg didn't know his first investor, Peter Theil, neither did the person who was initially tasked with seeking investors for Facebook. Nor was either Zuckerberg or his first president of Facebook 'an old college buddy' of Theil. At some point, people have to meet other people, but meeting someone to ask for an investment in a company is not a 'connection'. It's just the regular way of doing business. But if you have some evidence otherwise, please post it.

There's no push for black people to send their relatives, friends, neighbors, and other people just like them to jail either. I don't see what your point is. Do you get upset when black people protest the arrest of a criminal (which they seem to be doing a lot these days)? Do you get upset when Obama is commuting the sentences of convicted felons (more than any other president by far if I remember correctly), most of them black, including people with gun offenses? I doubt that you do. So please stop with the 'white people are soft on white criminals' nonsense.

Again, I don't get your point. The world is unfair. This is my shocked face. But the world is unfair for white people, black people, Asian people, Latino people, Jewish people and any other people you can think of. Whether they're in a homogeneous society or a melting pot. Someone will always lose out.

Do you know how simple the basic civil service exam is for well-paying jobs like police officer and sanitation worker? I've take the police officer exam and I can tell you that it is ridiculously simple. I've also taken the entrance exam for the Marine Corps and I can tell you, again, that it is ridiculously easy. You can't be illiterate, but you can be barely literate and still make it. But you seem to think that ANY kind of requirement is too much. So what do you expect? People should just sit on their butts until the age of 18, do no work, and still expect to fall @--backwards into a decent life. That's not the way it works.
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Old 01-05-2017, 01:44 AM
 
785 posts, read 345,253 times
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Originally Posted by caribny View Post
In fact I am as I have people from all of these fields as clients of mine.


YOU were the one who used your limited exposure to define what it is that the rest of us will undergo and what we must do to succeed.
You really think that makes you some kind of authority on all these fields? Wow. Just because you have clients in these fields does not make you an expert of any kind on those fields. Unless all you do all day for your clients is having them explain the intricate details of their workplace environments, the politics and the stresses. Even if you did do that, at best, you would have a limited understanding that is coming from a tiny fraction of people who work in those fields. And you have the nerve to talk about 'limited exposure'? No, forgive me if I don't believe your clients have given some massive insight into fields in which you have zero actual experience.

I also like how you're rewriting the conversation we've been having. Go and look again. You'll see that, contrary to what you have stated, it is YOU that have had the arrogance all along to claim that you, and only you, understand how the business world works. You're the one who repeatedly made definitive statements about how you KNOW things would go for me if I were to leave my current field:

"Maybe your attitude can work where you are but in the financial and other business service centers less so."

"So yes you better be concerned about how people higher up in the management chain think of you. You better also figure out which one(s) of your peers have connections to the upper echelons, as they can be dangerous, as they seek to promote their interests."

I've made no such claims. All I have done is state that I am my own person and I don't have to conform to what you think the rules should be. I also said that if you want to do the things you are talking about ('fitting in' and 'forming alliances'), you are free to do so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
I cite them because you were on a rant about lazy black people. No one can claim that some one who graduated from Harvard is dumb or lazy, so we remove that excuse. And we are left with why some highly motivated people end up worse off than others. And yes Harvard MBA, regardless of race, are very interested in making a decent income.
Please do not put words in my mouth. The 'lazy black people' comment came from someone else (I don't remember if it was you or 'writerdude'). I was simply quoting them to refute the notion that that was what I was saying. This is the problem with people like you. You can't have a serious conversation without resulting to demonizing your opponent. I'm a conservative, so I must view all black people as 'lazy and shiftless' (your words, not mine). There can't possibly be any validity to the argument that I made about parental involvement and education (at a much lower level than Harvard of course) as being a potential first step in a cure for the problems that plague the black community. It just has to be discarded as "GOP" and "Trump". Neither the GOP or Trump is sitting here talking to you. I'm an individual with my own mind, who grew up very poor in Brooklyn. I am qualified to speak on these issues as much as you are. Neither the GOP or Trump has any perspective on that.

You are seriously mistaken if you believe that no one who graduated from Harvard is stupid. I know people who graduated from Harvard, and I honestly don't know how some of them got in or out. Harvard has a high legacy acceptance rate, so maybe they were just lucky. But you go ahead and remove that 'excuse' if you want.

Still, you offer no reasons or answers to my question. If the issue were racism or implicit bias, those black Harvard MBAs most likely would not have been hired in the first place. So what changes that results in the salary drop after 10 years?

Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
In fact Zuckerberg did have connections which he was able to leverage when he did his "ask". You do know that many requests for financing are turned down.


And don't claim that it was the brilliance of his idea. When it started it wasn't obvious that the Facebook concept was workable, and in fact several earlier ones didn't succeed.
Prove your assertion that Mark Zuckerberg has 'connections' that resulted in his getting an initial investment from Theil. All the evidence I have read says that neither Zuckerberg nor the person who was seeking initial investment for Facebook new him. Asking for a meeting with someone who you otherwise wouldn't know is not a 'connection'.

You laughably claim that it wasn't the 'brilliance of his idea'. Yet the evidence to the contrary is staring you every day in the face. When you log on to your Facebook account 20 times per day. When you check your Facebook stock. When you look at Zuckerberg's net worth. And when, as you say, others failed where Facebook succeeded tremendously. It's pretty silly of you to make such a statement. You may think Facebook is 'meh', but the rest of the world disagrees with you pretty vehemently.
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Old 01-05-2017, 08:07 AM
 
6,837 posts, read 4,435,858 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anonimuso View Post
Prove your assertion that Mark Zuckerberg has 'connections' that resulted in his getting an initial investment from Theil. All the evidence I have read says that neither Zuckerberg nor the person who was seeking initial investment for Facebook new him. Asking for a meeting with someone who you otherwise wouldn't know is not a 'connection'.

You laughably claim that it wasn't the 'brilliance of his idea'. Yet the evidence to the contrary is staring you every day in the face. When you log on to your Facebook account 20 times per day. When you check your Facebook stock. When you look at Zuckerberg's net worth. And when, as you say, others failed where Facebook succeeded tremendously. It's pretty silly of you to make such a statement. You may think Facebook is 'meh', but the rest of the world disagrees with you pretty vehemently.
The guy who founded napster, Sean Parker, reached out to the founder of Linkedin who introduced him and Mark to Peter.
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Old 01-05-2017, 08:37 AM
 
1,978 posts, read 1,237,917 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anonimuso View Post
You have nothing to back up your claim that Mark Zuckerberg used his 'connections' to get funding for Facebook.
Mark Zuckerberg comes from a wealthy and educated family that was very progressive with his education. At an early age his parents nurtured his interest in programming by having his father teach him the basics and having a private tutor (software developer). He went to a prestigious private high school in Phillips Exeter Academy that is known for it success rate in students being accepted at Ivy league institutions (tuition and boarding can cost up to $50K a year). Given the amount of defunding in public education and outdated curriculum, you can not expect a middle class to poor family to have the resources to replicate Mark Zuckerberg success. Bill de Blasio last year stated he hoped in 10 years all NYC public high school would be able to offer classes in computer science, it ridiculous how outdated our public education system is.

Last edited by NYer23; 01-05-2017 at 08:46 AM..
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Old 01-05-2017, 09:02 AM
 
1,774 posts, read 1,416,031 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
In fact Zuckerberg did have connections which he was able to leverage when he did his "ask". You do know that many requests for financing are turned down.


And don't claim that it was the brilliance of his idea. When it started it wasn't obvious that the Facebook concept was workable, and in fact several earlier ones didn't succeed.
Most likely the case that he used his connections or his mommy's and daddy's connections to get funding. I know for a fact that MIT funded a Chinese startup of one of its former students back in the late 90s early 2000s. However they don't just fund any student with an idea, that Chinese student was able to get the funding because he had connections to the upper echelons of the communist party and set up meetings between them and the administrators at MIT. In return MIT funded his startup in China and the guy became a billionaire at one point. Investors are presented with lots of bright ideas, and many times whether or not you have connections is the deciding factor of whether they provide you with money or not. Unless you know people that are close to these transactions you'll never know what actually goes on behind the scenes.
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Old 01-05-2017, 05:38 PM
 
Location: 2 blocks from bay in L.I, NY
1,595 posts, read 1,278,627 times
Reputation: 2488
Default Making way too much sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by anonimuso View Post
I never said that education alone can solve the problems of black people. I said that education, hard work, and parental involvement would be a good way to start solving those problems. There are other things that would help, but those are ones that black communities can start working on themselves without help from anyone else.

You have nothing to back up your claim that Mark Zuckerberg used his 'connections' to get funding for Facebook. All evidence points to the contrary. We're not talking about 'friends' who helped him create the site. That's not the kind of connection we are talking about and you know it. We're talking about the financial investment that allowed Facebook to become what it is today. Zuckerberg didn't know his first investor, Peter Theil, neither did the person who was initially tasked with seeking investors for Facebook. Nor was either Zuckerberg or his first president of Facebook 'an old college buddy' of Theil. At some point, people have to meet other people, but meeting someone to ask for an investment in a company is not a 'connection'. It's just the regular way of doing business. But if you have some evidence otherwise, please post it.

There's no push for black people to send their relatives, friends, neighbors, and other people just like them to jail either. I don't see what your point is. Do you get upset when black people protest the arrest of a criminal (which they seem to be doing a lot these days)? Do you get upset when Obama is commuting the sentences of convicted felons (more than any other president by far if I remember correctly), most of them black, including people with gun offenses? I doubt that you do. So please stop with the 'white people are soft on white criminals' nonsense.

Again, I don't get your point. The world is unfair. This is my shocked face. But the world is unfair for white people, black people, Asian people, Latino people, Jewish people and any other people you can think of. Whether they're in a homogeneous society or a melting pot. Someone will always lose out.

Do you know how simple the basic civil service exam is for well-paying jobs like police officer and sanitation worker? I've take the police officer exam and I can tell you that it is ridiculously simple. I've also taken the entrance exam for the Marine Corps and I can tell you, again, that it is ridiculously easy. You can't be illiterate, but you can be barely literate and still make it. But you seem to think that ANY kind of requirement is too much. So what do you expect? People should just sit on their butts until the age of 18, do no work, and still expect to fall @--backwards into a decent life. That's not the way it works.
While there have been some good, credible points made on this thread by NYWriterDude, Caribny, and others, Anonimuso, you are making way too much sense! Your perceptions and thinking so closely mirrors my own, that I'm shocked. I too grew up in the hood and after becoming an adult have traveled extensively all over the country including the hoods. There is no more than 0.02% difference in the mentality from one hood to the other whether in the south, east coast, or west coast. I agree with you wholeheartedly about the absence of parental direction and guidance and a seriously LAX attitude toward their children's education as the biggest factor affecting the Black community. I've said as much on this board in years past.

I don't know if Caribny still remembers but he argued me down a few years ago when I've said what I'm about to say here again. I'm not saying all BM students behave this way but a large percentage do as school administrators, teachers, counselors, and social workers can attest. The problem is many BM students instead of applying themselves and dedicating themselves to do well academically many are playing around, cutting up, and BS-ing in school (starting in later elementary years) and it's not checked. It's laughed at by those around them and encouraged. They are not held accountable by their family.

Their trivializing of education only gets worse from middle school throughout high school where its' synthesized with over-the-top bravado/machismo and low-life thug behavior. C(rap) music is their soundtrack of choice and it keeps them racing for the bottom. The few brave souls who attempt to buck the trend do so at a severe risk to their physical and mental well-being as there is a contingent that vehemently opposes other Blacks from trying to do better/assert themselves for a better life and future. The bs-ing around in school towards education is the reason the majority of BM at age 18 until far in their late 30's or 40's are totally UNPREPARED to enter adulthood without mama, grandmama, auntie, or babymama (in her govt issue apt) having to house and feed them for a large part of their adult lives.

The school administration is blamed for these student's failures, teachers are blamed, and of course RACISM is blamed. True, all of these entities played a part howbeit a small one. The lion's share of blame should be on the PARENT(s) who failed their child, especially their sons. Entertainment was and continues to be placed far above education by both parent and child. Entertainment activities are chosen over educational activities. Hence, most have raised men-children who have no idea of how to achieve success in society other than trying to make quick money: selling drugs, robbing/theft, or dreaming of making it as pro-ball player, or rap artist. Consequently, barring an early violent death they continue to engage in behaviors which have a revolving door pipeline from jail to prison to release back to mom/grandmom/auntie/babymama's house. Rinse, repeat.

A good friend of mine who lives in northern CA and I talk about issues in our community all the time. A good guy friend of hers always say "it's like each generation (African-Americans) has to start over at square one. There is so much that no one talks to us about (parents, community, the Black church) and we have to figure everything out on our own". So true.
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Old 01-05-2017, 05:55 PM
 
Location: 2 blocks from bay in L.I, NY
1,595 posts, read 1,278,627 times
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Do you get upset when black people protest the arrest of a criminal (which they seem to be doing a lot these days)? - Anonimoso to NYWriterDude

Case in point. I was visiting in another state and last week I saw on the news some Black people protesting because a BM got shot by police. He was stopped at night by police when he drove into an apt complex as they were searching for a robbery suspect. Most thinking people would have stopped, allowed their police to check their ID, and go on their way after the police determined they're not the suspect. But no, these ghetto Black Einsteins' thinking is totally backwards. Upon exiting the car, he doesn't stop or show ID but keeps walking away - and it's pitch black night. Not only that but he also reaches in his pocket and pulls out something (turns out to be a boxcutter and yes that can be used as a weapon and yes this was all caught on camera). Of course the metal blade reflected the light - it was clear that it was some object which could be used as a weapon.

In this day age why would any BM reach in his pocket an pull out anything while disobeying police orders? How stupid does one have to be before they figure out what to do to save their own lives? How long can a people stay stuck on stupid? Sadly, there is a number of Blacks in that city, including the obligatory preacher, who are attempting to defend this man's foolishness are protesting against his situation as an example of racist police brutality against ALL Blacks. Their thinking gets more and more moronic. Of all the problems Black people are faced with and this what they choose to protest in support of? Are you kidding me??

Last edited by Klassyhk; 01-05-2017 at 06:02 PM.. Reason: spelling errors.
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