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Neoliberalism has disdain for working class people and working class jobs. In their dreams, everyone must become "educated" in socialism at leftist run universities. Never mind FREE college will not improve the long term earning abilities of people who are still going to end up working at the store, driving Uber, or some other job where they won't get to use their degree.
If degrees were such a sure return on investment, we would not be discussing free college as there would be nothing wrong with taking student loans.
If you've got no real plan to make money, no actual talent or ambition, you don't even BELONG in college. Just go out and get a job.
You sound like someone who wants to be a perpetual student, and having "free" education would just be a convenient way for you to hide out from the job market forever.
But you don't have to worry, I seriously doubt the Republicans in the state assembly will allow this to pass. Most people in socialist countries by the way do not have college educations, and only the highest testers qualified (granted different countries have different systems, but so it's hard to generalize).
If college isn't going to increase one's earning potential, then there is a simple solution. Don't go!
I've been to college and Have been in the workforce working for a hospital for years but have a ton of student debt. I'm interested in furthering my career and knowledge by going deeper in the medical field and becoming a physicians assistant or doctor. Unfortunately since I'm saddled with so much debt and have bills to pay this would not be possible. But if college education were free I could become a better trained, more valuable, worker and contributor to society.
That's what free education would do, train armies of engineers, doctors, lawyers, teachers, nurses, scientists for the future economy of New York State that has gone from manufacturing to purely retail.
If this plan is rolled out whereas obtaining the free education means you have to sign a contract to work in New York State for at least a decade or pay back the full amount of tuition, this could leap our economy into the future. We could be on the cutting edge of science, electronics, medicine.
I've been to college and Have been in the workforce working for a hospital for years but have a ton of student debt. I'm interested in furthering my career and knowledge by going deeper in the medical field and becoming a physicians assistant or doctor. Unfortunately since I'm saddled with so much debt and have bills to pay this would not be possible. But if college education were free I could become a better trained, more valuable, worker and contributor to society.
That's what free education would do, train armies of engineers, doctors, lawyers, teachers, nurses, scientists for the future economy of New York State that has gone from manufacturing to purely retail.
If this plan is rolled out whereas obtaining the free education means you have to sign a contract to work in New York State for at least a decade or pay back the full amount of tuition, this could leap our economy into the future. We could be on the cutting edge of science, electronics, medicine.
^^Good Points
I went to Queens College back in the late 70's/early 80's when tuition and fees were if I recall about $500+ per semester. TAP and BEOG completely covered my cost, thanks to not exactly being from a well off family. Basically I went to CUNY for free and in turn got a good job when I graduated and have been a life long NYer paying taxes ever since. I can't turn around and complain about someone else getting that opportunity.
Thanks to my good job, I don't even qualify for the free tuition for my own kids under this proposed plan but my daughter is getting "free" TUITION at SUNY right now as part of the NY STEM Incentive. She finished top 10% in her class and is going to a top SUNY and her $6700 tuition is covered, In turn she agrees to stay and work in her field in NY for at least 5 years after graduating. I still have to pay fees, books and room and board. If the new plan is a tuition only plan and includes similar requirements such as staying in NY, working and paying taxes then this is a good investment.
Where this plan has the potential to go off track is if anything beyond tuition is covered? Or let's face it, free tuition is offered for students to study something that isn't going to land them a good job. The Museum of Natural History can only hire so many Archeology majors.
First and foremost the plan only applies to *full time students*. If you are not or cannot take the 12 or whatever credits required per to be in that group, then the scheme offers you nothing.
Cuomo's proposed program would only pay for the "last mile" of tuition after Pell and Tap grants. Thus off the bat it seems would only apply to undergraduate students, and not simply everyone who is a NYC resident. If you aren't eligible for TAP or Pell, and or have exhausted one or both don't think this scheme offers much. Tip off to all this is how Cuomo framed this proposal costing *only* around 125 million USD. There is no way to offer "free CUNY or SUNY" education to everyone for such a paltry amount.
Next poor/low income students already receive (on average) enough in TAP, Pell and other grants/scholarships that more than cover their tuition. This money is refunded as checks students are supposed to use to pay for things like books and other supplies not covered by tuition but are necessary for study.
Finally this "free tuition" is not "free college". Funds would only cover actual tuition, books, lab fees, study guides, etc... all would still need to be paid from other sources of income.
Because low income CUNY and SUNY students already overwhelming do not pay tuition (see above reasons) and even come out ahead financially (ditto), the value of Cuomo's scheme is dubious far as that demographic is concerned. It *may* help middle income families households more but will saving about $1000 to $2000 really make that much of a difference to such households in relation to what it will cost the state (rather rate payers)?
CUNY and SUNY tuition already is low, quite low in fact. NYS also is one of the most generous states when it comes to financial aid for low income students. Yet somehow the quality overall on average for CUNY and some SUNY graduates isn't that great. Both systems suffer from far to many incoming students requiring remediation (some of it extensive) before then can even begin 100 level college courses. Then you have a stubbornly high drop out/failure to complete degree on time.
One major worry is that Cuomo's scheme will repeat what some still decry as the rumination of CUNY, the enactment of "open admissions". That changed has been blamed on the devastating effects on quality of the City University system; and are in fact still reverberating through it today.
A free college wouldn't have any value because it's free. When you have to pay for something you would place it as a higher value. No such thing as free lunch.
Hahahhahaha you believe this? FAFSA Gives practically NO aid ... they mostly just give high-interest loans that turn students into debt-slaves for the banks
No, you are incorrect:
" In fact, 66% of full-time CUNY undergraduate students already attend tuition-free, thanks to a combination of financial aid and scholarships, according to CUNY’s website. Some policy experts warn that a free-tuition policy would only benefit the remaining percentage of students that don’t receive any aid; presumably, students who are able to afford their tuition out-of-pocket, though there are several other factors that could disqualify students from financial aid."
While things have tightened up a bit since my day between Pell and TAP most students at CUNY have most if not all tuition paid and even get money back. You often find those who do take out loans could probably make up any shortfall by working or whatever, but often those funds are presented and or seen as "free money" so kids and or their families take it regardless.
I went to Queens College back in the late 70's/early 80's when tuition and fees were if I recall about $500+ per semester. TAP and BEOG completely covered my cost, thanks to not exactly being from a well off family. Basically I went to CUNY for free and in turn got a good job when I graduated and have been a life long NYer paying taxes ever since. I can't turn around and complain about someone else getting that opportunity.
Thanks to my good job, I don't even qualify for the free tuition for my own kids under this proposed plan but my daughter is getting "free" TUITION at SUNY right now as part of the NY STEM Incentive. She finished top 10% in her class and is going to a top SUNY and her $6700 tuition is covered, In turn she agrees to stay and work in her field in NY for at least 5 years after graduating. I still have to pay fees, books and room and board. If the new plan is a tuition only plan and includes similar requirements such as staying in NY, working and paying taxes then this is a good investment.
Where this plan has the potential to go off track is if anything beyond tuition is covered? Or let's face it, free tuition is offered for students to study something that isn't going to land them a good job. The Museum of Natural History can only hire so many Archeology majors.
Remember those TAP/BEOG days! *LOL*
You had kids who never set foot in class much less on campus showing up twice a year on financial aid disbursement days. There they would get that check which could be for hundreds or even a few thousand; you never saw them again......
IIRC such abuses were one of the reasons behind BEOG being revised into the Pell grant system with a host of new strings attached including minimum GPA, mandatory class attendance and other standards for completion.
I've been to college and Have been in the workforce working for a hospital for years but have a ton of student debt. I'm interested in furthering my career and knowledge by going deeper in the medical field and becoming a physicians assistant or doctor. Unfortunately since I'm saddled with so much debt and have bills to pay this would not be possible. But if college education were free I could become a better trained, more valuable, worker and contributor to society.
That's what free education would do, train armies of engineers, doctors, lawyers, teachers, nurses, scientists for the future economy of New York State that has gone from manufacturing to purely retail.
If this plan is rolled out whereas obtaining the free education means you have to sign a contract to work in New York State for at least a decade or pay back the full amount of tuition, this could leap our economy into the future. We could be on the cutting edge of science, electronics, medicine.
In European, Asian, India and other countries were college/university education is "free" only the crème de la crème are admitted, more so for the elite universities.
Strong testing begins usually at elementary school level and continues right through high school. As such a system of tracking develops; those children/student deemed via testing and grades to have the educational chops to handle college level work are tracked as such. Those who do not are sent onto vocational/technical routes.
State governments are not going to provide "free" college/university education to those deemed unfit/not prepared to handle the work. Indeed students who fail/cannot make the grade in such countries are quickly removed.
It is fair to say large numbers of CUNY, SUNY or even private college students here in the USA wouldn't last long under such a system.
Had several Indian and Chinese professors in college; during break times some of us would chat with them about this and that. Each and every professor said even the so called "top" American students in their classes wouldn't hack it at their universities. There is no hand holding, insanely easy multiple choice question exams, just you and a lecture hall full of sixty to one hundred or more students. If you are called to give an answer and cannot/it is incorrect the professor can simply tell you to "go". If your exam grades are poor, you are removed, end of story.
And this is a step in the right direction in helping NY families cope the rising COL.
But how are they going to fund this free college? Doubling the charge on out of state students? Will State colleges try to admit more tuition-paying students?
New York governor proposes free tuition at state colleges
Students whose families earn $125,000 or less would pay nothing for tuition at two- and four-year public colleges under the governor's plan.
It's similar to what Hillary Clinton proposed for public colleges across the country during her presidential campaign.
Cuomo announced his proposal in Queens on Tuesday, alongside Senator Bernie Sanders who first advocated for free tuition during the 2016 presidential campaign.
"In this economy, you need a college education if you're going to compete," Cuomo said in front of a crowd at LaGuardia Community College.
Point of this scheme is not if it becomes law; but rather it does give Cuomo another notch in his belt towards his run for a third term in 2018.
Just look at the optics; Cuomo teams up with Bernie Sanders; who lost in his bid for WH but claims he could have succeeded where HC failed, and beat Trump.
Meanwhile back at the ranch HC did *very* well in the POTUS race for NYS with good polling numbers from both up and down state. By stealing her thunder *and* teaming up with Mr. Sanders the governor is firing a preemptive salvo across the Clinton's bow.
Third terms normally don't go very well for NYS governors in recent memory (Mr. Cuomo's late father's legacy is testament to this), and there is always a worry that the voters have tired of the same face and want something new. Mr. Cuomo has one year to rack up as many "victories" as he can to enable him to go to the voters of NYS with a strong enough record that will not only convince them to re-elect; but scare off any challengers that could pose a serious threat. These could be both from within his party or Republican.
Cuomo's biggest liabilities are in several areas;
Upstate New York continues to lose population and jobs; the pace may have slowed but still things are what they are.
New York State is still ranked at or near top in terms of taxes, unfriendly business environment and so forth.
Most importantly despite promises to the contrary Albany made when Cuomo first ran for governor, Albany has *NOT* been cleaned up. The place is still a cesspool of patronage and where money buys influence. Three men in a room still largely govern the state especially the budget process.
Andrew Cuomo like his father loves the sound of his voice a bit too much. As such he makes all these announcements of grand plans (a ten billion USD makeover for JFK was announced today), but is short of details about how the things are to be funded/work. If they don't happen Cuomo will lay blame elsewhere but take credit (or try) for making the attempt.
LMFAO @ people whining they have to fill out forms for FAFSA as if it's some sort of major inconvenience to their lives and oh so difficult to do. wtf?! have we really become this pathetic as a society!? Newflash: if you don't have anything to hide, and you are worthy of financial aid, you WILL get it. I had to resubmit everything every single year too, I never considered it some kind of awful process, it's just life. wtf? Yes they might make a mistake, but there are always appeals, you won't get kicked out of school. People just want everything served to them on a silver platter and then think that silver platter deserves them a life of gold. please.
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