Working Class NeighborHoods in the Bronx (Rockland, Sheridan: rent, insurance, mortgages)
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Dude, had the roles been reversed and I said so and so place is diverse because it has a 14% black and brown population, you'd argue to me that 14% does not make it a diverse area when the remaining 86% of the people are white.
Come bro, wake up. Just admit it. You very well know the Bronx ain't diverse racially. Its so damn obvious. Don't kid yourself.
Some people in this thread are being wrong to act as though all white people are the same, but you're being EXTRA wrong by pretending all black and brown people are the same.
If a place was 86% pure one black community and 14% white (like flatbush) or 86% pure one type of hispanic and 14% white, I wouldn't say it's diverse. But if it's like 30% puerto rican 20% mexican 15% white 20% black 5% chinese 10% dominican or something (which is more likely the case in uptown manhattan and the bronx) I'd call that diverse, just like I'd call a place diverse if it was about 30% irish 20% italian 30% russian 20% jewish.
Some people in this thread are being wrong to act as though all white people are the same, but you're being EXTRA wrong by pretending all black and brown people are the same.
If a place was 86% pure one black community and 14% white (like flatbush) or 86% pure one type of hispanic and 14% white, I wouldn't say it's diverse. But if it's like 30% puerto rican 20% mexican 15% white 20% black 5% chinese 10% dominican or something (which is more likely the case in uptown manhattan and the bronx) I'd call that diverse, just like I'd call a place diverse if it was about 30% irish 20% italian 30% russian 20% jewish.
He's actually right. You can throw around all of those stats but generally speaking, there isn't much intermingling of groups. That's what he's talking about. Even in minority areas, you may see lots of black and brown folks, but they aren't really intermingling either. The Latinos stick with the Latinos. The Africans stick with the Africans. The Black Americans with their own... The West Indians with their own. The Whites live in relatively isolated out of the way areas where they are the majority, even if there are other groups. Do you call that "diversity"?
Outside of the hipster areas - I see the same exact things in Brooklyn/Queens/Staten Island... That's normal in any immigrant city. Any old time NY'ers will tell you Irish and Italians didn't want each other in their own neighborhoods.
Some people in this thread are being wrong to act as though all white people are the same, but you're being EXTRA wrong by pretending all black and brown people are the same.
If a place was 86% pure one black community and 14% white (like flatbush) or 86% pure one type of hispanic and 14% white, I wouldn't say it's diverse. But if it's like 30% puerto rican 20% mexican 15% white 20% black 5% chinese 10% dominican or something (which is more likely the case in uptown manhattan and the bronx) I'd call that diverse, just like I'd call a place diverse if it was about 30% irish 20% italian 30% russian 20% jewish.
Even just saying Black in this context is wrong. Upper Manhattan has African Americans, West Africans, Black Dominicans, Black Puerto Ricans (yes they exist) and other Black Caribbeans and Hispanics. There are Black Christians, Black Muslims, practitioners of African based religions, etc. There are linguistic and religious differences as well. Of course there are Mexicans, Central Americans, South Americans as well (of varying races), plus Arabs, South Asians, and some East Asians. And yes there are white people (not all of the name nationality or religion, either). Some are Christian, some are Jewish. Some are American from various European backgrounds and some are immigrants from other countries.
I'm well aware of that, but that doesn't change my stance. Your scenario is the exception and not the rule. Are you trying to say that such mixes or mixing in general is the norm in the Bronx? I'd beg to differ on that one. You're not going to see Indians mixing with much of anyone else. Anytime I see Indians in Parkchester, they are among their own group. Dominicans mixing with AA or other blacks? It happens, but not necessarily on a large scale.
Such mixes are the norm among certain groups, yes.
Intermarriages between AAs, West Indians, or even Dominicans are not rare. Intermarriages between Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, and other Latinos are not rare.
Among those born in NYC, I'm Black and I couldn't tell by speaking to a Black person what country their parents are from (sometimes you have ideas by the name or last name, but that often points to region and not country).
To even call someone West Indian is misleading, because the Caribbean is made up of many different islands. They aren't all Black either. You have a lot of Indians in the Caribbean, and a lot of Caribbeans have some Asian or Black ancestry. And someone who is Jamaican might marry someone who is Trinidadian.
I lived much of my life in NYC's Black and Brown communities, and I'm one of them and I know what goes on. There's substantial interaction.
For starters in these neighborhoods people tend to hang out in front of the building and talk to everyone who goes by. It's how they socialize, and yes they do talk to people outside their country of origin.
They tend to play sports together too in the parks, not to mention to go school together, go to parties together,work on the same jobs, etc. And yes intermarriages are frequent.
Even just saying Black in this context is wrong. Upper Manhattan has African Americans, West Africans, Black Dominicans, Black Puerto Ricans (yes they exist) and other Black Caribbeans and Hispanics. There are Black Christians, Black Muslims, practitioners of African based religions, etc. There are linguistic and religious differences as well. Of course there are Mexicans, Central Americans, South Americans as well (of varying races), plus Arabs, South Asians, and some East Asians. And yes there are white people (not all of the name nationality or religion, either). Some are Christian, some are Jewish. Some are American from various European backgrounds and some are immigrants from other countries.
There are also white people from Latin American countries/areas (Puerto Rico, Brazil, Argentina, etc.)
is the Bronx as diverse as say your average area in Toronto or London? No (nowhere in NYC is). Would I say the Bronx is diverse? Its more diverse than most cities and towns throughout the US. most towns and cities are either overwhelmingly white, mostly black or mostly hispanic. then you have many southern cities and towns where youre either white or black and each ethnic group lives on their "side of town" even if mexicans and other hispanics live in that town, same thing. the whites live in their world the blacks and the mexicans each live in theirs. Alot of midwestern cities and some midwest towns fit this same profile. Even Chicago, the largest city in the midwest and the 3rd largest in the US blacks, latinos and whites all live in their separate areas. they may intermingle somewhat but not to the extent they do in NY City.
Now lets look at the Bronx. 2010 census estimates that approx 54% of the borough is hispanic, 30% Black, 11% white and 3% asian. While it is mainly hispanic with a significant black minority, the white population is still in the double digits. admittedly asians dont really do the bronx (although alot of bangladeshis and guyanese indians have started to move into the borough). Its not like other cities where blacks live on one side whites on another and latinos everywhere else. not quite. Latinos dominate many of the areas but theres a significant black minority. the ratios are usually 70% latino 25-30% black, 60% latino to 35-40% black at most even 55%-45% latinos to blacks. At the most extreme its usually 80% latino 15% black (mainly longwood area). and like others said, latino and black can mean a buncha different nationalities. Latino has historically meant puerto rican but now its puerto ricans dominicans mexicans (esp along 149 St)...can also mean hondurans guatemalans costa ricans colombians, etc. Black can mean Afro american (Bronx is one of the last bastions of them to be real) west African, West Indian as well as afro latinos. In predominantly black areas, latinos can make up @ least 15-20% of the area. Whites are generally albanians italians or Jews (mainly riverdale). The black and latinx groups frequently mingle and sometimes even date each other.....they dont live separate existences like in other parts of the US....back in the gang wars of the 1970s blacks and latins had mostly separate gangs but it was said that with the explosion of hip hop (which was a jamaican DJ using dub tactics on afro american funk and soul records) hip hop started to bring the 2 groups together. Not to mention the Black Panthers in the bronx did collaborative work with the young Lords (a puerto rican activist group). Blacks and latinos dont interact to the same extent in other boroughs not even in Brooklyn. Only black/latinx areas i know of down there are Bushwick and Cypress Hills/East NY.
Ive also heard albanians goto some of the same public schools as the black and latinx youths. Esp Columbus HS in pelham pkwy. I used to hear news reports of albanians fighting with black and latinx kids but this was in the late 90s not sure if its still like that today.
So when people say "oh the bronx isnt diverse" whats the issue? is it because theres not enough white people? is it because theres not that many asians (which is a legit criticism)? Is it white people feel uncomfortable bc blacks and browns highly outnumber them? Keep in mind queens is diverse but its also highly segregated. Brooklyn's chinese community has exploded but they live in their separate areas as well.
There are also white people from Latin American countries/areas (Puerto Rico, Brazil, Argentina, etc.)
Yes. All Latin American countries have white people. The percentage varies by nation. A large percentage of Latinos are also mixed race, so most of those brown people are part white but for some reason American whites have difficulty with the concept of a person being of two or more races. Many Latin Americans are a mixture of White, Native, and Black.
is the Bronx as diverse as say your average area in Toronto or London? No (nowhere in NYC is). Would I say the Bronx is diverse? Its more diverse than most cities and towns throughout the US. most towns and cities are either overwhelmingly white, mostly black or mostly hispanic. then you have many southern cities and towns where youre either white or black and each ethnic group lives on their "side of town" even if mexicans and other hispanics live in that town, same thing. the whites live in their world the blacks and the mexicans each live in theirs. Alot of midwestern cities and some midwest towns fit this same profile. Even Chicago, the largest city in the midwest and the 3rd largest in the US blacks, latinos and whites all live in their separate areas. they may intermingle somewhat but not to the extent they do in NY City.
Now lets look at the Bronx. 2010 census estimates that approx 54% of the borough is hispanic, 30% Black, 11% white and 3% asian. While it is mainly hispanic with a significant black minority, the white population is still in the double digits. admittedly asians dont really do the bronx (although alot of bangladeshis and guyanese indians have started to move into the borough). Its not like other cities where blacks live on one side whites on another and latinos everywhere else. not quite. Latinos dominate many of the areas but theres a significant black minority. the ratios are usually 70% latino 25-30% black, 60% latino to 35-40% black at most even 55%-45% latinos to blacks. At the most extreme its usually 80% latino 15% black (mainly longwood area). and like others said, latino and black can mean a buncha different nationalities. Latino has historically meant puerto rican but now its puerto ricans dominicans mexicans (esp along 149 St)...can also mean hondurans guatemalans costa ricans colombians, etc. Black can mean Afro american (Bronx is one of the last bastions of them to be real) west African, West Indian as well as afro latinos. In predominantly black areas, latinos can make up @ least 15-20% of the area. Whites are generally albanians italians or Jews (mainly riverdale). The black and latinx groups frequently mingle and sometimes even date each other.....they dont live separate existences like in other parts of the US....back in the gang wars of the 1970s blacks and latins had mostly separate gangs but it was said that with the explosion of hip hop (which was a jamaican DJ using dub tactics on afro american funk and soul records) hip hop started to bring the 2 groups together. Not to mention the Black Panthers in the bronx did collaborative work with the young Lords (a puerto rican activist group). Blacks and latinos dont interact to the same extent in other boroughs not even in Brooklyn. Only black/latinx areas i know of down there are Bushwick and Cypress Hills/East NY.
Ive also heard albanians goto some of the same public schools as the black and latinx youths. Esp Columbus HS in pelham pkwy. I used to hear news reports of albanians fighting with black and latinx kids but this was in the late 90s not sure if its still like that today.
So when people say "oh the bronx isnt diverse" whats the issue? is it because theres not enough white people? is it because theres not that many asians (which is a legit criticism)? Is it white people feel uncomfortable bc blacks and browns highly outnumber them? Keep in mind queens is diverse but its also highly segregated. Brooklyn's chinese community has exploded but they live in their separate areas as well.
Proof church isn't only on sundays ladies and gentleman.
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