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Old 04-30-2017, 02:02 PM
 
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On the whole, I feel for the victims of so called "gentrification". There are positive things about even poor neighborhoods--a fabric of community that can be uprooted and destroyed by "market forces". As Karl Marx himself said, "everything that is solid melts into air" when exposed to the workings of capitalism.

However, I came to feel dislike verging on hatred for the locals of my old neighborhood in Inwood, based on their preference for partying the night away in the streets and sleeping during the day; while economic forces beyond my control obliged me to keep to the opposite schedule.

I will probably visit that block several times over the next few years for no other reason but to enjoy the gentrification of it, the dwindling and death of the all-night domino games, the replacement of the dope runners on sport bikes by moms pushing strollers and I will say to myself "good riddance."
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Old 04-30-2017, 02:24 PM
 
25,543 posts, read 19,620,551 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by high iron View Post
On the whole, I feel for the victims of so called "gentrification". There are positive things about even poor neighborhoods--a fabric of community that can be uprooted and destroyed by "market forces". As Karl Marx himself said, "everything that is solid melts into air" when exposed to the workings of capitalism.

However, I came to feel dislike verging on hatred for the locals of my old neighborhood in Inwood, based on their preference for partying the night away in the streets and sleeping during the day; while economic forces beyond my control obliged me to keep to the opposite schedule.

I will probably visit that block several times over the next few years for no other reason but to enjoy the gentrification of it, the dwindling and death of the all-night domino games, the replacement of the dope runners on sport bikes by moms pushing strollers and I will say to myself "good riddance."
The dope runners aren't going anywhere, and you have drug dealers in expensive parts of Manhattan.

As for the all night domino games? Who are you kidding? This is NYC,and plenty of people will always be active at night, be it domino games, drinks, clubs, or whatever. It sounds like you had little in the way of social skills or friends and you were jealous because other people were having a good time.

People will always have friends and always hang out.
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Old 04-30-2017, 03:14 PM
 
1,998 posts, read 1,514,141 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Those who boost this "ridding the neighborhood of ghetto people" reflect their own racism and classism. Many who live in these places provide services that the yuppies need. Who is going to care for their kids when they are both at work earning incomes to afford their lifestyle? Who is going to serve them in restaurants?
Hispanic and Asian immigrants have been migrating to NYC in large numbers. Many of them are willing to live in the outskirts of the city in crammed apartments performing cheap labor for the future opportunity America has to offer their children. Much of the displacement going on is toward working poor white and black. There not enough upwardly mobile blacks moving to NYC to offset the amount moving to the outskirts of the city/leaving NYC compared to whites, so the numbers look more drastic.

By having democrats blur the line in what is a legal and illegal immigrant they are not doing working poor any favors in driving labor cost down.





The Gentrification of Gotham
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Old 04-30-2017, 03:40 PM
 
Location: New York, NY
9,317 posts, read 4,543,600 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYer23 View Post
Hispanic and Asian immigrants have been migrating to NYC in large numbers. Many of them are willing to live in the outskirts of the city in crammed apartments performing cheap labor for the future opportunity America has to offer their children. Much of the displacement going on is toward working poor white and black. There not enough upwardly mobile blacks moving to NYC to offset the amount moving to the outskirts of the city/leaving NYC compared to whites, so the numbers look more drastic.

By having democrats blur the line in what is a legal and illegal immigrant they are not doing working poor any favors in driving labor cost down.





The Gentrification of Gotham
Poor whites? In what neighborhoods? The neighborhoods where whites declined (based on what you posted) were once white areas that suffered white flight. Whitestone for example is NOT poor. It is a solid middle class to upper middle class area, that has historically been a Greek, Irish and Italian neighborhood, but the Asians are trying to take over and the whites are moving to Long Island or other parts of Northeast Queens. The same happened with Flushing. The whites have been leaving a lot of the upper middle class areas of Northeast Queens because the Asians (mainly Koreans in some parts and Chinese in others that have been moving up the economic ladder) have been making their mark in Whitestone/Beechurst/Malba, Douglaston, Little Neck, Fresh Meadows, Glen Oaks, Bay Terrace and Bayside, though these areas still have sizable white populations.

Norwood was once an Irish stronghold, but when the area went south, the Irish fled to Woodlawn, Riverdale and parts of Westchester nearby like Southeast Yonkers just across the border from Woodlawn.
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Old 04-30-2017, 03:49 PM
 
800 posts, read 786,333 times
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I'm pretty amazed by this conversation. Lots of immature energy from people who have quite obviously inherited their position in this world. I don't have much confidence that some of these posters have any sense for the history of different groups that have come to what is now the United States over the past 400 years, either by choice or by force.

Here is New York City when it was the great creator of culture, not a bunch of rich kids who just consume it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WHe5fxS3dA
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Old 04-30-2017, 03:50 PM
 
1,998 posts, read 1,514,141 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pierrepont7731 View Post
Poor whites? In what neighborhoods? The neighborhoods where whites declined (based on what you posted) were once white areas that suffered white flight. Whitestone for example is NOT poor. It is a solid middle class to upper middle class area, that has historically been a Greek, Irish and Italian neighborhood, but the Asians are trying to take over and the whites are moving to Long Island or other parts of Northeast Queens. The same happened with Flushing. The whites have been leaving a lot of the upper middle class areas of Northeast Queens because the Asians (mainly Koreans in some parts and Chinese in others that have been moving up the economic ladder) have been making their mark in Whitestone/Beechurst/Malba, Douglaston, Little Neck, Fresh Meadows, Glen Oaks, Bay Terrace and Bayside, though these areas still have sizable white populations.

Norwood was once an Irish stronghold, but when the area went south, the Irish fled to Woodlawn, Riverdale and parts of Westchester nearby like Southeast Yonkers just across the border from Woodlawn.
Below is the list of areas that saw a decrease in white population the past 17 years. Definition of middle class/working poor is subjective in NYC. I filtered by most at the top (the data is in the link i attached).

Flushing, Murray Hill & Whitestone
Bensonhurst & Bath Beach
Port Richmond, Stapleton & Mariners Harbor
Bayside, Douglaston & Little Neck
Co-op City, Pelham Bay & Schuylerville
Canarsie & Flatlands
Sheepshead Bay, Gerritsen Beach & Homecrest
Upper East Side
Bay Ridge & Dyker Heights
Pelham Parkway, Morris Park & Laconia
Richmond Hill & Woodhaven
Queens Village, Cambria Heights & Rosedale
Howard Beach & Ozone Park
Murray Hill, Gramercy & Stuyvesant Town
New Springville & South Beach
Briarwood, Fresh Meadows & Hillcrest
Elmhurst & South Corona
Ridgewood, Glendale & Middle Village
Upper West Side & West Side
Forest Hills & Rego Park
Bedford Park, Fordham North & Norwood
Riverdale, Fieldston & Kingsbridge
Jackson Heights & North Corona
East New York & Starrett City
Borough Park, Kensington & Ocean Parkway
Wakefield, Williamsbridge & Woodlawn
Jamaica, Hollis & St. Albans
Morris Heights, Fordham South & Mount Hope
Sunnyside & Woodside
Castle Hill, Clason Point & Parkchester
Belmont, Crotona Park East & East Tremont
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Old 04-30-2017, 04:32 PM
 
Location: New York, NY
9,317 posts, read 4,543,600 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYer23 View Post
Below is the list of areas that saw a decrease in white population the past 17 years. Definition of middle class/working poor is subjective in NYC. I filtered by most at the top (the data is in the link i attached).
I responded below in bold:

Flushing, Murray Hill & Whitestone
Flushing and Murray Hill have experienced white flight for some time. Whites moving out of Whitestone is a fairly new thing. It's partially white flight and partially Asians moving in with cash to buy the houses. An offer too good to resist for some looking to sell and move on that are retired, etc.

Bensonhurst & Bath Beach
Once the Italians left Bensonhurst and Bath Beach for Dyker Heights, Bay Ridge, Staten Island, New Jersey, and elsewhere, they were replaced by Russians or Asians for the most. The Italians didn't flee. They just moved on/wanted more space.

Port Richmond, Stapleton & Mariners Harbor
No surprise here... More whites moved further into Staten Island. Still some whites in some of these areas. The only area with decent parts is parts of Stapleton Heights. Port Richmond was literally saved by the Mexican population. They've made that area a neighborhood, though it is a rather poor one overall compared to most of Staten Island.

Bayside, Douglaston & Little Neck
Due to Asians moving in with money (cash) and whites moving elsewhere - retiring, etc.

Co-op City, Pelham Bay & Schuylerville
The Jews left Co-op City years ago. Pelham Bay and Schuylerville have both been Italian strongholds, but the Italians have been leaving in droves to Westchester. Nevertheless, Pelham Bay still has a sizable white population, though more Hispanics are moving in.

Canarsie & Flatlands
White flight big time... Italians and Jews sold and never looked back.

Sheepshead Bay, Gerritsen Beach & Homecrest
Homecrest is really a part of Sheepshead Bay, but yes whites left in droves in the mid 1990s to New Jersey, Staten Island and elsewhere, replaced by Eastern Europeans, and Asians. There are still some old school whites there though, and Gerritsen Beach is still pretty white (old school white - Italian, Irish and German).

Upper East Side
More Asians - have noticed Chinese and Japanese as well moving in, but not a huge decline in the white population.

Bay Ridge & Dyker Heights
More Asians (Chinese) coming - the Italians have managed to hold on to Dyker Heights and the splashy parts of Bay Ridge, but even areas like Dyker Heights that are expensive have Asians moving in with cash to purchase those beautiful homes. Still a solid Italian population left there.

Pelham Parkway, Morris Park & Laconia
Italians have left/died out in some cases in Morris Park to be replaced by Albanians. Pelham Parkway was mainly Jewish back in the day, but is mainly mixed these days. Laconia also has a big Albanian population

Richmond Hill & Woodhaven
Richmond Hill is mainly East Asian these days. Woodhaven has declined in QoL, but still has a sizable white population. Has a mix of Hispanic, White and Asians now.

Queens Village, Cambria Heights & Rosedale
We know what happened here. White flight!

Howard Beach & Ozone Park
The decline in the white population here is due to Ozone Park, not Howard Beach so much. Still around 90% white - mainly Italian.

Murray Hill, Gramercy & Stuyvesant Town
More Asians have been moving in some areas.

New Springville & South Beach
These areas have mainly been white for years, so the decrease can't be too significant.

Briarwood, Fresh Meadows & Hillcrest
Fresh Meadows in particular has been a Jewish stronghold, but more Asians have been moving in with money.

Elmhurst & South Corona
Whites fled from these areas years ago.

Ridgewood, Glendale & Middle Village
Hispanics have been moving in. Italians still have a sizable presence in Glendale, and especially in Middle Village.

Upper West Side & West Side
More Asians with money moving in... Some Hispanics here and there too...

Forest Hills & Rego Park
More Asians with money moving in...

Bedford Park, Fordham North & Norwood
White flight in these areas some time ago... Norwood used to be like Woodlawn is today... Norwood does have Montefiore which has anchored the neighborhood from really going down the tube.

Riverdale, Fieldston & Kingsbridge
Riverdale and Fieldston should be considered as one neighborhood since Fieldston is a subsection of Riverdale. Kingsbrige is not part of Riverdale. The biggest shift in the population has naturally occurred in the Kingsbridge which is more working class with a growing Dominican population. Riverdale is still mainly white, as it is an upper middle to upper class area, though the Hispanic population has been growing and interestingly enough mainly "white" Hispanics, such as those from Argentina. There are some Puerto Ricans and Dominicans as well, but the rising prices and high ownership will likely keep the area from experiencing any significant white decline.

Jackson Heights & North Corona
White flight in these areas long time ago...

East New York & Starrett City
White flight in these areas long time ago...

Borough Park, Kensington & Ocean Parkway
Borough Park was always white as far as I know - mainly Jewish, and most of Kensington too. When did Ocean Parkway become a neighborhood?

Wakefield, Williamsbridge & Woodlawn
Williamsbridge and Wakefield experienced white flight years ago. Woodlawn is still white as ever - mainly Irish and Irish American, with some Italians and Germans.

Jamaica, Hollis & St. Albans
We know what happened here. White flight!


Morris Heights, Fordham South & Mount Hope
When was Morris Heights ever white? Fordham I can understand...

Sunnyside & Woodside
Sunnyside and Woodside still have a decent Irish population, but both have a mix of everything now.

Castle Hill, Clason Point & Parkchester
Parkchester - the complex once had a "white's only" policy. That has obviously changed and so you still have some whites left, with some new ones moving in, but it's basically a mixed bag. Blacks, Hispanics and East Asians. Castle Hill has been a Puerto Rican stronghold for years now, with some Blacks. Clason Point is mainly minority and has been for as long as I can remember.

Belmont, Crotona Park East & East Tremont
Belmont - Italian population moved on, but you still have college kids from Fordham. If Fordham ever expands, I could see that area's white population growing again.
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Old 04-30-2017, 04:50 PM
 
11,455 posts, read 7,687,360 times
Reputation: 6162
Quote:
Originally Posted by pierrepont7731 View Post
I responded below in bold:

Flushing, Murray Hill & Whitestone
Flushing and Murray Hill have experienced white flight for some time. Whites moving out of Whitestone is a fairly new thing. It's partially white flight and partially Asians moving in with cash to buy the houses. An offer too good to resist for some looking to sell and move on that are retired, etc.

Bensonhurst & Bath Beach
Once the Italians left Bensonhurst and Bath Beach for Dyker Heights, Bay Ridge, Staten Island, New Jersey, and elsewhere, they were replaced by Russians or Asians for the most. The Italians didn't flee. They just moved on/wanted more space.

Port Richmond, Stapleton & Mariners Harbor
No surprise here... More whites moved further into Staten Island. Still some whites in some of these areas. The only area with decent parts is parts of Stapleton Heights. Port Richmond was literally saved by the Mexican population. They've made that area a neighborhood, though it is a rather poor one overall compared to most of Staten Island.

Bayside, Douglaston & Little Neck
Due to Asians moving in with money (cash) and whites moving elsewhere - retiring, etc.

Co-op City, Pelham Bay & Schuylerville
The Jews left Co-op City years ago. Pelham Bay and Schuylerville have both been Italian strongholds, but the Italians have been leaving in droves to Westchester. Nevertheless, Pelham Bay still has a sizable white population, though more Hispanics are moving in.

Canarsie & Flatlands
White flight big time... Italians and Jews sold and never looked back.

Sheepshead Bay, Gerritsen Beach & Homecrest
Homecrest is really a part of Sheepshead Bay, but yes whites left in droves in the mid 1990s to New Jersey, Staten Island and elsewhere, replaced by Eastern Europeans, and Asians. There are still some old school whites there though, and Gerritsen Beach is still pretty white (old school white - Italian, Irish and German).

Upper East Side
More Asians - have noticed Chinese and Japanese as well moving in, but not a huge decline in the white population.

Bay Ridge & Dyker Heights
More Asians (Chinese) coming - the Italians have managed to hold on to Dyker Heights and the splashy parts of Bay Ridge, but even areas like Dyker Heights that are expensive have Asians moving in with cash to purchase those beautiful homes. Still a solid Italian population left there.

Pelham Parkway, Morris Park & Laconia
Italians have left/died out in some cases in Morris Park to be replaced by Albanians. Pelham Parkway was mainly Jewish back in the day, but is mainly mixed these days. Laconia also has a big Albanian population

Richmond Hill & Woodhaven
Richmond Hill is mainly East Asian these days. Woodhaven has declined in QoL, but still has a sizable white population. Has a mix of Hispanic, White and Asians now.

Queens Village, Cambria Heights & Rosedale
We know what happened here. White flight!

Howard Beach & Ozone Park
The decline in the white population here is due to Ozone Park, not Howard Beach so much. Still around 90% white - mainly Italian.

Murray Hill, Gramercy & Stuyvesant Town
More Asians have been moving in some areas.

New Springville & South Beach
These areas have mainly been white for years, so the decrease can't be too significant.

Briarwood, Fresh Meadows & Hillcrest
Fresh Meadows in particular has been a Jewish stronghold, but more Asians have been moving in with money.

Elmhurst & South Corona
Whites fled from these areas years ago.

Ridgewood, Glendale & Middle Village
Hispanics have been moving in. Italians still have a sizable presence in Glendale, and especially in Middle Village.

Upper West Side & West Side
More Asians with money moving in... Some Hispanics here and there too...

Forest Hills & Rego Park
More Asians with money moving in...

Bedford Park, Fordham North & Norwood
White flight in these areas some time ago... Norwood used to be like Woodlawn is today... Norwood does have Montefiore which has anchored the neighborhood from really going down the tube.

Riverdale, Fieldston & Kingsbridge
Riverdale and Fieldston should be considered as one neighborhood since Fieldston is a subsection of Riverdale. Kingsbrige is not part of Riverdale. The biggest shift in the population has naturally occurred in the Kingsbridge which is more working class with a growing Dominican population. Riverdale is still mainly white, as it is an upper middle to upper class area, though the Hispanic population has been growing and interestingly enough mainly "white" Hispanics, such as those from Argentina. There are some Puerto Ricans and Dominicans as well, but the rising prices and high ownership will likely keep the area from experiencing any significant white decline.

Jackson Heights & North Corona
White flight in these areas long time ago...

East New York & Starrett City
White flight in these areas long time ago...

Borough Park, Kensington & Ocean Parkway
Borough Park was always white as far as I know - mainly Jewish, and most of Kensington too. When did Ocean Parkway become a neighborhood?

Wakefield, Williamsbridge & Woodlawn
Williamsbridge and Wakefield experienced white flight years ago. Woodlawn is still white as ever - mainly Irish and Irish American, with some Italians and Germans.

Jamaica, Hollis & St. Albans
We know what happened here. White flight!


Morris Heights, Fordham South & Mount Hope
When was Morris Heights ever white? Fordham I can understand...

Sunnyside & Woodside
Sunnyside and Woodside still have a decent Irish population, but both have a mix of everything now.

Castle Hill, Clason Point & Parkchester
Parkchester - the complex once had a "white's only" policy. That has obviously changed and so you still have some whites left, with some new ones moving in, but it's basically a mixed bag. Blacks, Hispanics and East Asians. Castle Hill has been a Puerto Rican stronghold for years now, with some Blacks. Clason Point is mainly minority and has been for as long as I can remember.

Belmont, Crotona Park East & East Tremont
Belmont - Italian population moved on, but you still have college kids from Fordham. If Fordham ever expands, I could see that area's white population growing again.
For Richmond Hill you mean South Asian, not East Asian. To my knowledge that neighborhood is heavily Indo-Guyanese.
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Old 04-30-2017, 05:02 PM
 
Location: New York, NY
9,317 posts, read 4,543,600 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by l1995 View Post
For Richmond Hill you mean South Asian, not East Asian. To my knowledge that neighborhood is heavily Indo-Guyanese.
Yes, that's correct.
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Old 04-30-2017, 05:16 PM
 
25,543 posts, read 19,620,551 times
Reputation: 10013
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYer23 View Post
Hispanic and Asian immigrants have been migrating to NYC in large numbers. Many of them are willing to live in the outskirts of the city in crammed apartments performing cheap labor for the future opportunity America has to offer their children. Much of the displacement going on is toward working poor white and black. There not enough upwardly mobile blacks moving to NYC to offset the amount moving to the outskirts of the city/leaving NYC compared to whites, so the numbers look more drastic.

By having democrats blur the line in what is a legal and illegal immigrant they are not doing working poor any favors in driving labor cost down.





The Gentrification of Gotham
NYC gets lots of Black immigrants, and perhaps the majority of Black New Yorkers are of African, Caribbean, or Black Hispanic descent. You should be aware Hispanics are of all races.
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