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Old 04-03-2019, 04:26 PM
 
Location: SC
8,655 posts, read 5,437,327 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liliya47 View Post
Hawaii is first state who just adopted a Universal basic income for everybody. Is it a dream or illusion?
It is inevitable.
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Old 04-03-2019, 04:32 PM
 
Location: New York City
7,918 posts, read 6,007,672 times
Reputation: 5648
Quote:
Originally Posted by elnrgby View Post
Although I am fiscally conservative, I actually support UBI - provided that all other forms of welfare are discontinued. There are fiscally conservative economic theorists who think that this would in fact minimize welfare spending. Finland experiment was limited in scope and duration (which the experimental subjects knew), which is different from permanently giving $10,000 per year (but nothing, absolutely nothing else for free!) to every adult US citizen from Bill Gates to a guy who sleeps on a park bench. If everyone had $10,000 per year with certainty, and nothing else to rely on except one's own ingenuity, people would likely think harder and with a far greater sense of responsibility how to spend those $10,000, knowing that they have to take care of themselves from that starting point onward, because nobody else will take care of them.



I do think UBI would work. It would be the question of pooling together the cost of all other handouts, and seeing how much money there is to give to each US adult if all the funds are pulled out of every other handout. Again, many conservative economic theorists think that the resulting amount of $ would be sufficient to give every adult American a basic survival minimum for free.
When in the history of the United States have they rolled back entitlements, except for Bill Clinton's welfare reform?

I would love to see it, but it's never going to happen. People with their hands out want their food stamps, they want their section 8 vouchers, they want their medicare, they want it all. Add it all up and that UBI better be more than all that or they will never let them drop it. Bleeding heart social justice warriors are militant about taking from the people with good jobs and giving it to uneducated low income people come hell or high water
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Old 04-03-2019, 06:03 PM
 
Location: NYC
12,393 posts, read 8,339,377 times
Reputation: 13607
Quote:
Originally Posted by liliya47 View Post
Hawaii is first state who just adopted a Universal basic income for everybody. Is it a dream or illusion?
Just expanded welfare system. Won't solve any problems just keep kicking the can down the road. When Obama expanded healthcare to the poor and people who can't afford healthcare. It was supposed to lower the price of healthcare and services. Guess again.
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Old 04-03-2019, 06:32 PM
 
1,454 posts, read 515,404 times
Reputation: 1481
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakeJones View Post
When in the history of the United States have they rolled back entitlements, except for Bill Clinton's welfare reform?

I would love to see it, but it's never going to happen. People with their hands out want their food stamps, they want their section 8 vouchers, they want their medicare, they want it all. Add it all up and that UBI better be more than all that or they will never let them drop it. Bleeding heart social justice warriors are militant about taking from the people with good jobs and giving it to uneducated low income people come hell or high water

Unfortunately, you are probably right. The welfarefest has gone too far to be contained. But UBI without any other welfare, if possible to implement, would be the simplest and easiest way to end poverty. It would motivate poor people to work their way out of poverty (because there would be no concern of losing welfare money due to obtaining a job/income), or to get themselves out of the genetic pool (as there would be no additional welfare money to support children - conservative ideas of UBI consider it only for adults; in that scheme, raising kids is the responsibility of their own parents, not of unrelated taxpayers).


This being said, though, California DID discontinue certain free disability and child services during recession, and they have never been restored. So, there are some limited examples of welfare actually being rolled back in the US of A.
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Old 04-03-2019, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Forest bathing
1,553 posts, read 879,773 times
Reputation: 3589
If UBI becomes a reality, our borders will be overrun. Freebies are a magnet.
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Old 04-04-2019, 08:10 AM
 
Location: New York City
7,918 posts, read 6,007,672 times
Reputation: 5648
Quote:
Originally Posted by xPlorer48 View Post
If UBI becomes a reality, our borders will be overrun. Freebies are a magnet.
You mean De Blasio and Liz Warren won't stop illegals from getting the UBI? Say it ain't so!!
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Old 04-04-2019, 08:22 AM
 
1,454 posts, read 515,404 times
Reputation: 1481
Quote:
Originally Posted by xPlorer48 View Post
If UBI becomes a reality, our borders will be overrun. Freebies are a magnet.



No Sir/Ma'am. In order to get a federal benefit, you need to be in the federal database as a citizen. There are such things as birth certificate, social security number, certificate of naturalization, and alien registration number. If you are a proper lawful immigrant who went through all the years (in my case, 29 years) of the complicated legal procedure to show that you would be an asset to the US or at least not harm the US in any way, your fingerprints and other biometrics are also in that database. Some states or "refuge cities" may choose to disregard ID details when giving out taxpayers' money, but in order to get any federal benefit, you do need to be fully legal.
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Old 04-04-2019, 08:45 AM
 
86 posts, read 91,806 times
Reputation: 35
UBI is neither an illusion nor a dream. It is the future and it is coming. For those of us under 35, potentially in our lifetime. And you better hope that it comes, because the alternative is the creation of 2 classes - small oligarchy that controls the means of production (e.g. the robots and software), a tiny class of their servants (doctors, lawyers, military etc.) and billions of impoverished masses that would have to be contained in some sort of concentration camps or otherwise kept at bay. Those would be the people not born into the "asset rich" class and lacking the innate intellectual capacity to become a professional servant - rendering them completely useless and unnecessary in this new world. This is where its going if you mentally begin taking the idea of automation and growing inclome inequality forward. Personally, not the world I'd like to live in. However, one important caveat: the UBI has to come with strict population controls. That includes both birth rates and immigration.
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Old 04-04-2019, 08:54 AM
 
Location: New York City
7,918 posts, read 6,007,672 times
Reputation: 5648
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbandweller13 View Post
UBI is neither an illusion nor a dream. It is the future and it is coming. ... UBI has to come with strict population controls. That includes both birth rates and immigration.
oh is that all, easy enough! Sterilization clinics coming to a town near you!
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Old 04-04-2019, 09:40 AM
 
86 posts, read 91,806 times
Reputation: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakeJones View Post
oh is that all, easy enough! Sterilization clinics coming to a town near you!
Luckily, that would probably not be needed since fertility rates in the developed world decline on their own. It's like whenever people realize that there are better, more fun things to do than popping out screaming and pooping bundles of joys, they stop doing the latter. There are easy way to disincentivize people from having multiple children. For example, a reduction to said UBI with each child after 1st until its full elimination, spiking up costs of child care for the 2nd child, etc. Easy. A lot of these forces work naturally already. No sterilization clinics are necessary when a daycare (which only covers 1/2 day I may add) cost $3,000 and a 2Br apartment rents for $6000+ as it currently is in Manhattan.
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