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Old 07-09-2017, 11:23 AM
 
9,952 posts, read 8,438,330 times
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That is incredibly far from the truth. The productive classes with fight tooth and nail to stop it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kefir King View Post
Guaranteed income is inevitable. The only question is the timing and perhaps how many cities have to be burnt to the ground.
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Old 07-10-2017, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Manhattan
20,129 posts, read 26,407,309 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBMW View Post
That is incredibly far from the truth. The productive classes with fight tooth and nail to stop it.

And it is the fighting "tooth and nail" that will result in the cities being burned to the ground. If one's choice is to starve to death with permanent unemployment or kill a few of the "productive class" and torch their homes, what choice do you think he will make?


Do you think the burning of Watts, Cicero, Harlem, and Irvington had no effect on moving the country towards civil rights?


Productive class? You mean those who move money from one fund to another?
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Old 07-10-2017, 10:43 AM
 
Location: crafton pa
980 posts, read 300,358 times
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The biggest problem with UBI is that it runs smack dab into the nominal fallacy. Think of how high rents are in NYC, for example. Now, add say $30K per year to everyone's income. What do you think will happen to rents now? Obviously, since everyone has more money to spend, landlords will increase the amount of rent that they demand for their apartments. People still need places to live, and now they can afford the increase in rent, so these apartments will be rented. Everyone will have more money, but they will at the same time need more money to meet their living expenses.

Of course, I used rent only as an example. Prices of all other goods and services will necessarily increase when the supply of money in the economy increases. It's a never-ending cylcle. If you don't see this, then consider, why universal BASIC income? Why be so cheap? Doesn't everyone deserve to be rich? Why not Universal MILLIONAIRE Income? Why not just give everyone an extra $5 million or so per year and everyone is now magically rich. No more poverty! Of course, it's not going to work since prices will rise accordingly, and a $5 million per year income will become poverty level.
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Old 07-10-2017, 11:04 AM
 
Location: New York City
7,125 posts, read 5,493,619 times
Reputation: 4875
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanAdventurer View Post
Well for one thing STEM majors and fields are hard and most of the population doesn't have the IQ for it and would wash out. Smart people are a valuable limited resource and dumb ones are a dime a dozen.
lol so true!!
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Old 07-10-2017, 11:06 AM
 
Location: New York City
7,125 posts, read 5,493,619 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stremba View Post
The biggest problem with UBI is that it runs smack dab into the nominal fallacy. Think of how high rents are in NYC, for example. Now, add say $30K per year to everyone's income. What do you think will happen to rents now? Obviously, since everyone has more money to spend, landlords will increase the amount of rent that they demand for their apartments. People still need places to live, and now they can afford the increase in rent, so these apartments will be rented. Everyone will have more money, but they will at the same time need more money to meet their living expenses.

Of course, I used rent only as an example. Prices of all other goods and services will necessarily increase when the supply of money in the economy increases. It's a never-ending cylcle. If you don't see this, then consider, why universal BASIC income? Why be so cheap? Doesn't everyone deserve to be rich? Why not Universal MILLIONAIRE Income? Why not just give everyone an extra $5 million or so per year and everyone is now magically rich. No more poverty! Of course, it's not going to work since prices will rise accordingly, and a $5 million per year income will become poverty level.
well, the people who already had money will just be bidding things higher (inflation). The ones who don't will buy random appliances or blow it on cigarettes/alcohol/drugs and end up with the same disposable income after prices have gone up for everything leaving them worse off than they started
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Old 07-10-2017, 11:13 AM
 
Location: New York, NY
2,456 posts, read 1,806,602 times
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Anyways, Universal Income would be a nightmare. No one would want to study to become a doctor but instead they'd take up the worst, what would be the lowest paying and less thought provoking jobs and still be able to make the same money. A disaster for any country that has nothing to offer in terms of trade.

Only the lazy and especially those without discipline would think that a Universal Income would be a dream come true. On another note - there isn't such thing as a dumb person - only a person who lacks interest in hard work at studying a trade or skill coupled with lack of discipline- mostly so from bad upbringing.
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Old 07-10-2017, 12:10 PM
 
6,810 posts, read 4,420,910 times
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UBN = Universal Basic Necessity. (rent, food, electricity/water/heat = basic necessities in life) I would recommend UBN instead of Universal Basic Income.

A voucher for a portion of your rent, (property tax), food and electrical/water/heat. (rent, food, electricity/water/heat = basic necessities in life) This way a person does not use the money for trivial things. This program would only apply to individuals that have graduated high school, are not listed as a dependent by anyone else and have no criminal record. If person receives a criminal record they will not be eligible for the voucher for 10 years. If the person receives another criminal record then the person is not eligible for 20 years and on the 3rd strike it will be a lifetime ban. This will promote individuals not to break the law and also graduate H.S.

UBI will need requirements. H.S. Diploma, Not listed a dependent by anyone, no criminal history, Income requirement $0 - $1 Million annual salary. The program will only be for the benefit of the poor to middle class. The rich, super rich, 1%, etc are not allowed in this program.

The voucher will be applied during the filing on your taxes. A person can only receive a voucher as an individual if they are not claimed as a dependent by another person.

Last edited by Mr. Ryu; 07-10-2017 at 12:22 PM..
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Old 07-10-2017, 12:16 PM
 
6,810 posts, read 4,420,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stormgal View Post
Anyways, Universal Income would be a nightmare. No one would want to study to become a doctor but instead they'd take up the worst, what would be the lowest paying and less thought provoking jobs and still be able to make the same money. A disaster for any country that has nothing to offer in terms of trade.

Only the lazy and especially those without discipline would think that a Universal Income would be a dream come true. On another note - there isn't such thing as a dumb person - only a person who lacks interest in hard work at studying a trade or skill coupled with lack of discipline- mostly so from bad upbringing.
Why would anyone want to work a menial job? Those jobs have stress too. "they'd take up the worst, what would be the lowest paying and less thought provoking jobs and still be able to make the same money."

I don't believe everyone would just want to receive UBI. UBI will distinguish the losers vs winners. The losers will stay at home or wherever thus allowing the winners full access to schools, professional jobs, etc. It's a win-win IMO.

UBI will need requirements. H.S. Diploma, Not listed a dependent by anyone, no criminal history, Income requirement $0 - $1 Million annual salary) Sorry but if you make more than $1 million salary then you don't really benefit.

I would still work a professional job and pay all my expenses with the UBI. (less stress about money with the UBI)
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Old 07-10-2017, 02:57 PM
 
296 posts, read 322,792 times
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Post lyla45

Quote:
Originally Posted by roseba View Post
There are so many opinions about what people would, or moreoever, what people would NOT do if they had universal basic income. Most of them based on conservative ideology. All speculative. None based on facts.

Overwhelming evidence suggest that people will be MORE productive, not less.

http://erf.org.eg/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/1090.pdf

Quora Question: Does Universal Basic Income Work?

Is There Proof That Universal Basic Income Works? | International Business Times

https://futurism.com/evidence-indica...-human-health/
Yes, those study suggest the evidence that People be more productive, more healthy/ physically and mentally/ , because it's reduces or illiminate the stress/pressure on people constantly worry about basic needs..Also, people be more happier.
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Old 07-10-2017, 03:31 PM
 
23,247 posts, read 16,056,508 times
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In a nation that would elect Trump and a Republican Congress these proposals are DOA. Not to mention terrible ideas.
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