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Old 07-16-2017, 12:21 PM
 
1,998 posts, read 1,357,990 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
No one is expecting someone to let homeless sleep in their houses, give away all their disposable income to the poor, etc (at least no one who isn't either mentally ill or extremely low IQ).

However pointing out the hypocritical attitudes of people or if the city as a whole is valid and justice. New York City claims to love it's diversity and love it's immigrants and minorities, yet they protect the wealthiest white people in a district called zone 2 where other people cannot send their kids to go to school. Granted those are the only wealthy white Manhattan neighborhoods (the district doesn't include the UWS or LES) but there is no excuse for maintaining this kind of segregation in a city where all residents in some form or another are paying taxes.

I think one reason why people point that out is that it's not okay for these schools to take in one or two non whites while excluding the rest of the city. People who live in the outer boroughs and upper Manhattan (all those minorities/immigrants) are paying taxes for public schools in NYC as well. It's called tokenism (superficially choosing one or two individual minorities to deflect accusations of racism). People these days easily see through this, and it's just not acceptable.

I think that's where wawaweewa is coming from.
Housing and school remain segregated because it is very personal to people. You are asking upwardly mobile people to risk their child education in a world that becoming more competitive for smaller finite resources (good paying jobs). I see it as much more of a class issue than a race, plenty of middle class minorities have abandoned inner city schools (yet rarely do people call them out on it, same as grentification). Bussing students across NY-NJ metro area isn't practical.

 
Old 07-16-2017, 01:09 PM
 
24,004 posts, read 17,410,308 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYer23 View Post
Housing and school remain segregated because it is very personal to people. You are asking upwardly mobile people to risk their child education in a world that becoming more competitive for smaller finite resources (good paying jobs). I see it as much more of a class issue than a race, plenty of middle class minorities have abandoned inner city schools (yet rarely do people call them out on it, same as grentification). Bussing students across NY-NJ metro area isn't practical.
Where did I say students should be bussed? I said no such thing. But being that many people across the city work in Manhattan, if they are able to get their children to and from school there, then they definitely should have the option of sending their kids to those public schools, after all they are likely working in district 2 and they are paying taxes to support district 2.

If upwardly mobile people think they are all that, they need to apply to private schools. Enjoy that 60k a year tuition for a time private school in Manhattan.

I also am speaking about against the hypocrisy of certain so called minorities, who upon getting a few extra dollars want to close the door to other minorities to preserve their token status.

Now of course I do support the right for people to leave where they please, but that includes going to school where they please in a municipality where they live and pay taxes.

Btw, let's be honest, middle class minorities can't afford district 2. Middle class minorities often live in the outer boroughs close to immigrants and poor minorities, or in suburbs that are not upscale. District 2, which has some superwealthy people doesn't have middle class people outside of mitchel lama and other affordable co-ops, which are basically glorified housing projects.

I see no reason why rich white people in district 2 get to have their own public schools that other people from the city can't attend. Open these schools to the city as a whole, and for those parents who don't like that, this is where they send their kids to private schools. And oh yeah, of course I'm aware the OCCASIONAL non white kid goes to these schools (tokenism).
 
Old 07-16-2017, 01:11 PM
 
24,004 posts, read 17,410,308 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoshanarose View Post
To be fair, those poor people who don't work (or work off the books) are not paying income taxes.
They are paying sales taxes. Whatever rent they pay, goes to the landlord, who is paying property tax. Benjamin Franklin said two things are certain. Death and taxes.
 
Old 07-16-2017, 01:30 PM
 
3,671 posts, read 2,135,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
They are paying sales taxes. Whatever rent they pay, goes to the landlord, who is paying property tax. Benjamin Franklin said two things are certain. Death and taxes.
Yes. But sales taxes are far less than the additional 25-50% of income taxes that working-, middle-class, and rich people pay.
 
Old 07-16-2017, 01:35 PM
 
24,004 posts, read 17,410,308 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoshanarose View Post
Yes. But sales taxes are far less than the additional 25-50% of income taxes that working-, middle-class, and rich people pay.
But they are paying them none the less (sales taxes) and indirectly the real estate tax).

District 2 doesn't officially ban non working people. District 2 bans anyone not a rich white New Yorker. So de facto it doesn't matter whether you live in the projects or in a private rental or in a middle class co-op, you are banned by predominately white district 2 when your tax dollars are supporting NYC department of education. There's no way to separate your tax dollars (whether real estate or income) from the taxes of the people in district 2.

This is a civil rights violation, to make people pay for services they cannot get (cannot send their kids to public schools in a city that they are a part of).

You live in Brooklyn. If you were working in district 2 and wanted to take your kids to school there, you should have the right to do so. Currently, you don't.
 
Old 07-16-2017, 01:56 PM
 
3,671 posts, read 2,135,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
But they are paying them none the less (sales taxes) and indirectly the real estate tax).

District 2 doesn't officially ban non working people. District 2 bans anyone not a rich white New Yorker. So de facto it doesn't matter whether you live in the projects or in a private rental or in a middle class co-op, you are banned by predominately white district 2 when your tax dollars are supporting NYC department of education. There's no way to separate your tax dollars (whether real estate or income) from the taxes of the people in district 2.

This is a civil rights violation, to make people pay for services they cannot get (cannot send their kids to public schools in a city that they are a part of).

You live in Brooklyn. If you were working in district 2 and wanted to take your kids to school there, you should have the right to do so. Currently, you don't.
I don't have kids so the issue is moot.

And I am not defending the right to play around with school district zoning in order to exclude poor people and/or people of color.

I am simply saying that NON-working poor people do pay significantly less taxes than do working lower/working- , middle-, and upper-class people.

In addition, those poor (and middle class) people living in housing projects/public housing don't pay real estate taxes either.
 
Old 07-16-2017, 02:15 PM
 
10,460 posts, read 8,414,601 times
Reputation: 5034
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
They are taxed. But they still have lots of money, and it is their choice entirely to give it to whatever charity they chose or to be honest they don't have to donate at all.

There is never away to 100% allocate resources equally, and there never would be. What you just said taken to it's ultimate conclusion is communism.

Your ideology is all over the place.
They aren't taxed enough. They should be forced to put their ridiculous sums of wealth to work. They are closer to being trillionaires then me or you are to ever even being considered millionaires. This is nowhere close to being in realms of communism. If Bill Gates grew up in the Sahara he would not be Bill Gates. Its America that made them who they are. Now its time to give back.
 
Old 07-16-2017, 02:20 PM
 
10,460 posts, read 8,414,601 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by l1995 View Post
Most conservatives are far from libertarian. Evidence of that being the fact that most conservatives support stop and frisk and most will support war.
Most conservatives do not support random stop and frisk. For the most part, stop and frisk means nothing to us as it isn't prevalent in conservative neighborhoods. But if it were, conservatives would be against 100% because it attacks freedoms.

Most conservatives do not support war. We support a federal government that provides a concentration of its resources on defense. For example, cyber security should be a priority, but Democrats obviously dropped the ball on that one. We need a special investigation as to why the Obama administration couldn't keep our networks safe.
 
Old 07-16-2017, 02:25 PM
 
10,460 posts, read 8,414,601 times
Reputation: 5034
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoshanarose View Post
Many conservatives are more "libertarian" than many liberals.
(Except for abortion: they tend not to believe in free choice or lack of governmental control in that area.)
It depends on how we want to legally define murder. We obviously have different thresholds on what that definition is.
 
Old 07-16-2017, 02:31 PM
 
10,460 posts, read 8,414,601 times
Reputation: 5034
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYer23 View Post
Housing and school remain segregated because it is very personal to people. You are asking upwardly mobile people to risk their child education in a world that becoming more competitive for smaller finite resources (good paying jobs). I see it as much more of a class issue than a race, plenty of middle class minorities have abandoned inner city schools (yet rarely do people call them out on it, same as grentification). Bussing students across NY-NJ metro area isn't practical.
Parents in underprivileged neighborhoods should have the freedom to send their kids to school outside their district. Not institutionalized bussing, but better options should be available if their local government fails them.
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