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Old 07-16-2017, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
7,901 posts, read 6,472,299 times
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The death penalty is a no-brainer. Considering history, it actually goes against human nature not to support it.

 
Old 07-16-2017, 04:37 PM
 
9,871 posts, read 7,676,937 times
Reputation: 4669
Quote:
Originally Posted by l1995 View Post
Even the "bad" parts of NYC aren't particularly dangerous anymore, and stop and frisk is almost gone now.

Obviously some areas will need more policing than others, but systematic stop and frisk is a violation of consitutional rights. Conservatives would be furious if their children were ever stopped and friskes.

No, most liberals did not support war, though some did at first.

Anyway my point is that most conservatives are not libertarians, which I don't think you're disagreeing with.
I've always disagreed with stop and frisk, but I do think it is justifiable.

Some areas shouldn't need more policing than others. Why should an area with less tax revenue receive more funding?
 
Old 07-16-2017, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
7,901 posts, read 6,472,299 times
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Regarding street encounters between the police and "suspicious persons", this is the only federal decision that matters. It's clear, concise, and no matter what anyone else says, it's the law:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/392/1
 
Old 07-16-2017, 05:06 PM
 
23,247 posts, read 16,049,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Dale View Post
It is a false narrative that most people do time for drugs as a result of stop and frisk. In reality they got caught with drugs, but they also happened to have a pistol. So if they really want to reduce prison terms in NYS, they should legalize pistols too.

And in stop and frisk neighborhoods there are more reports of crime called in by the people living in the neighborhood. So naturally cops look for the culprit.
And even if they have a pistol on them, if that person was not seen committing a crime the cops have absolutely no reason to stop them. It doesn't matter how many reports of crime have taken place, unless the stopped person committed a crime the cops have no reason to stop them.

Again one cannot stop people for things they might do.
 
Old 07-16-2017, 05:11 PM
 
23,247 posts, read 16,049,776 times
Reputation: 8529
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborneguy View Post
Regarding street encounters between the police and "suspicious persons", this is the only federal decision that matters. It's clear, concise, and no matter what anyone else says, it's the law:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/392/1
"The case went to trial on March 18th through 20th, 2013. On August 12th, 2013, Judge Scheindlin handed down two rulings in favor of the plaintiffs, one on liability and one dealing with remedies.[9] The remedies opinion also applied to Ligon, et al. v. City of New York, a lawsuit brought by the New York Civil Liberties Union, The Bronx Defenders, LatinoJustice PRLDEF, and the law firm Shearman & Sterling LLP challenging the use of stops and frisks in private buildings through what is known as Operation Clean Halls.[10] Included in Judge Scheindlin's remedies opinion were a number of significant measures, including the establishment of an independent monitor to oversee the police department's reform efforts.[11] On October 31st, 2013, the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit granted the City's motion to stay the remedial opinion, and remanded the case to District Court to be heard by a new judge.[12] However, the City indicated on January 30th, 2014 that it will drop its appeal.[13]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_v._City_of_New_York

You are very wrong. Scheindlin ruled against NYC on this matter. The Bloomberg administration appealed the decision, however the de Blasio administration DROPPED the appeal.

Therefore as per the federal judge's ruling stop and frisk WITHOUT someone actively committing a crime is unconstitutional as per the city's settlement of this federal lawsuit.

Cops don't make laws, and pointing a link from a ruling nearly 50 years ago is disingenuous, as it has nothing to do with recent issues with policing.

So, as things stand, cops in NYC may not stop someone UNLESS they catch them doing a crime. A person merely walking down the street or standing outside cannot be stopped or frisked. It's pretty much well known too cops can't stop and frisk around the city, and one's lawyer would have a field day with an incident of an officer stopping someone without just cause (meaning they saw them commit a crime).
 
Old 07-16-2017, 05:14 PM
 
9,871 posts, read 7,676,937 times
Reputation: 4669
8
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
And even if they have a pistol on them, if that person was not seen committing a crime the cops have absolutely no reason to stop them. It doesn't matter how many reports of crime have taken place, unless the stopped person committed a crime the cops have no reason to stop them.

Again one cannot stop people for things they might do.
That's fine. But its the pistol not the drug possession that they saw time for. I'd think that as an advocate to empty prisons that you'd feel strongly towards the right to carry a pistol.
 
Old 07-16-2017, 05:21 PM
 
23,247 posts, read 16,049,776 times
Reputation: 8529
Here is where stop and frisk failed. Many small businesses around the city are fronts for money laundering/drug dealing. Of course cops cannot just come in and search small businesses, and small business owners have money to fight charges.

The police picked on the poorest people to stop and frisk and if they have anything on them got in trouble, all while stop and frisk made no dent in the drug trade, and no dent in the illegal weapons trade.

Stop and Frisk also doesn't rid the street of criminals, all it does is locked them up for a short period of time, and then they are out back in the streets doing the same things as before.

Notice now that the opiod epidemic has grown huge to the point where the leading cause of death of people under 50 is overdosing, they aren't trying to arrest poor white addicts of their dealers en masse. Nope, they are using compassion here.

And truthfully mass arrests wouldn't stop the opiate epidemic anyway.

Of course Airborneguy and cops like him love mass arrests, it's a way to keep taxpayer dollars funding the criminal justice system and their pensions. With stop and frisk banned, and with other "liberal" initatives to reduce arrests and incarceration, there's less need for police officers and related criminal justice employees, and we'd actually get to SAVE taxpayer dollars.

Conservative rhetoric isn't all bad, and if they want to reduce government spending and government waste, let's start with the criminal justice. Decriminalize if not legalize all drugs. With the massive reduction of people in jail, it would be time to lay off corrections officers, police officers, etc. Not only lay them off, with less criminal justice staff we'd be reducing the pension burden of NYS.
 
Old 07-16-2017, 05:22 PM
 
23,247 posts, read 16,049,776 times
Reputation: 8529
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Dale View Post
8

That's fine. But its the pistol not the drug possession that they saw time for. I'd think that as an advocate to empty prisons that you'd feel strongly towards the right to carry a pistol.
And I'm saying if the person wasn't seen committing a crime, stopping them and searching them and arresting them for having a pistol on them is still ILLEGAL per the judge's ruling.
 
Old 07-16-2017, 05:46 PM
 
9,871 posts, read 7,676,937 times
Reputation: 4669
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
And I'm saying if the person wasn't seen committing a crime, stopping them and searching them and arresting them for having a pistol on them is still ILLEGAL per the judge's ruling.
So you agree. They have every right to carry that pistol.
 
Old 07-16-2017, 05:49 PM
 
3,333 posts, read 3,280,911 times
Reputation: 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborneguy View Post
The death penalty is a no-brainer. Considering history, it actually goes against human nature not to support it.
Even if an innocent person is put to death by the state?

I see no problem with the death penalty but I can only support it if it doesn't lead to innocent people being liked.
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