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And this may be why you are still renting in an unhip outerborough neighborhood, whereas in 5 to 7 years these new grads from elite schools who have spent their first few years in NYC networking like crazy, going out to every social event they can since their apartment is nearby and it's not time consuming to do so, and working 80 hours a week in their demanding and well-paying entry-level job, are going to own some great apartment in a desirable Manhattan neighborhood, or a townhouse in brownstone Brooklyn.
It's all about perspective. Your perspective is a bit narrow.
I do agree that everyone has different preferences.
I definitely understand that many young people are dying to live in Manhattan to work and hang out in Manhattan all the time, and will be happy to share an apartment, even a crowded one, to do so.
For me, I very much preferred to live alone (if not with a significant other) - I did live with roommates as a much younger person but didn't like it much, and enjoyed living alone.
As a result, when I returned to NYC, it was obvious that living alone in Manhattan was unaffordable (at least for me).
And I was pretty happy to move to a not-hip outer borough neighborhood, because I appreciated many aspects of it (besides the long commute to my job at the time in Manhattan ), including:
- much lower rents (when I moved in I was paying $950 for a large 1 bedroom apartment. And to be honest, I think I was overpaying. Some others were paying $800 for the same apartment in the building).
- very safe neighborhood - safer than ANY neighborhood in Manhattan. Seriously. There is no one here who doesn't live or work here. Not a lot of through-traffic. And there are no projects here so the only people who live here are working class immigrants who live in the apartments or working- to upper-middle and above class homeowners. Immigrant neighborhoods tend to be the safest in the city.
- more of a neighborhood/small town feel. The shopkeepers and neighbors start to know you. It's homier than Manhattan
- For me, I liked that it was a Jewish neighborhood, with a Jewish community, which was - believe it or not, hard to find in parts of Manhattan. I know there are Jewish neighborhoods in Manhattan, but they seem so big and anonymous, it's hard to find a community.
- I liked living among working class people who seemed less snobby and judgemental than the upper class people I tended to meet in Manhattan.
However....I know not all New Yorkers feel like me (in fact, most don't), and many - especially young people - would rather live with roommates in Manhattan, than out in the outer boroughs alone.
It's all a matter of preferences and priorities.
I do agree that everyone has different preferences.
I definitely understand that many young people are dying to live in Manhattan to work and hang out in Manhattan all the time, and will be happy to share an apartment, even a crowded one, to do so.
For me, I very much preferred to live alone (if not with a significant other) - I did live with roommates as a much younger person but didn't like it much, and enjoyed living alone.
As a result, when I returned to NYC, it was obvious that living alone in Manhattan was unaffordable (at least for me).
And I was pretty happy to move to a not-hip outer borough neighborhood, because I appreciated many aspects of it (besides the long commute to my job at the time in Manhattan ), including:
- much lower rents (when I moved in I was paying $950 for a large 1 bedroom apartment. And to be honest, I think I was overpaying. Some others were paying $800 for the same apartment in the building).
- very safe neighborhood - safer than ANY neighborhood in Manhattan. Seriously. There is no one here who doesn't live or work here. Not a lot of through-traffic. And there are no projects here so the only people who live here are working class immigrants who live in the apartments or working- to upper-middle and above class homeowners. Immigrant neighborhoods tend to be the safest in the city.
- more of a neighborhood/small town feel. The shopkeepers and neighbors start to know you. It's homier than Manhattan
- For me, I liked that it was a Jewish neighborhood, with a Jewish community, which was - believe it or not, hard to find in parts of Manhattan. I know there are Jewish neighborhoods in Manhattan, but they seem so big and anonymous, it's hard to find a community.
- I liked living among working class people who seemed less snobby and judgemental than the upper class people I tended to meet in Manhattan.
However....I know not all New Yorkers feel like me (in fact, most don't), and many - especially young people - would rather live with roommates in Manhattan, than out in the outer boroughs alone.
It's all a matter of preferences and priorities.
There are plenty of nice cool areas in the outer boroughs. People talk as if living the outer boroughs is a death sentence. There is nothing wrong with Brooklyn Heights, Williamsburg, Park Slope, Astoria, Forest Hills, Riverdale, Little Neck, Douglaston and the like. These are all fantastic areas, some of which are the most beautiful areas of NYC. In fact, have plenty of people moving leaving Manhattan to move to such areas.
Most of the areas mentioned are just a short subway or commuter rail ride away from Manhattan for night life if don't want to stay in those areas. Can tell you that I love Astoria. Can't beat the food and the nightlife is great.
I do agree that everyone has different preferences.
I definitely understand that many young people are dying to live in Manhattan to work and hang out in Manhattan all the time, and will be happy to share an apartment, even a crowded one, to do so.
For me, I very much preferred to live alone (if not with a significant other) - I did live with roommates as a much younger person but didn't like it much, and enjoyed living alone.
As a result, when I returned to NYC, it was obvious that living alone in Manhattan was unaffordable (at least for me).
And I was pretty happy to move to a not-hip outer borough neighborhood, because I appreciated many aspects of it (besides the long commute to my job at the time in Manhattan ), including:
- much lower rents (when I moved in I was paying $950 for a large 1 bedroom apartment. And to be honest, I think I was overpaying. Some others were paying $800 for the same apartment in the building).
- very safe neighborhood - safer than ANY neighborhood in Manhattan. Seriously. There is no one here who doesn't live or work here. Not a lot of through-traffic. And there are no projects here so the only people who live here are working class immigrants who live in the apartments or working- to upper-middle and above class homeowners. Immigrant neighborhoods tend to be the safest in the city.
- more of a neighborhood/small town feel. The shopkeepers and neighbors start to know you. It's homier than Manhattan
- For me, I liked that it was a Jewish neighborhood, with a Jewish community, which was - believe it or not, hard to find in parts of Manhattan. I know there are Jewish neighborhoods in Manhattan, but they seem so big and anonymous, it's hard to find a community.
- I liked living among working class people who seemed less snobby and judgemental than the upper class people I tended to meet in Manhattan.
However....I know not all New Yorkers feel like me (in fact, most don't), and many - especially young people - would rather live with roommates in Manhattan, than out in the outer boroughs alone.
It's all a matter of preferences and priorities.
I share your sentiment that it's better to live outer borough neighborhood. In fact, many, many people do, including hipsters. Which is why so many of them are moving into places like Harlem and Washington Heights. Which aren't really affordable anymore, but more so than the yuppy neighborhoods.
I'm only 22 and I have zero desire to live in a rich neighborhood with a bunch of roommates, however I would live with roommates in a more comfortable situation if I had to.
However, many people who live in neighborhoods like yours still need roommates.
There are plenty of nice cool areas in the outer boroughs. People talk as if living the outer boroughs is a death sentence. There is nothing wrong with Brooklyn Heights, Williamsburg, Park Slope, Astoria, Forest Hills, Riverdale, Little Neck, Douglaston and the like. These are all fantastic areas, some of which are the most beautiful areas of NYC. In fact, have plenty of people moving leaving Manhattan to move to such areas.
Most of the areas mentioned are just a short subway or commuter rail ride away from Manhattan for night life if don't want to stay in those areas. Can tell you that I love Astoria. Can't beat the food and the nightlife is great.
For sure. However, neighborhoods like Brooklyn Heights, Williamsburg, Park Slope, and Astoria are now very expensive, almost as expensive as Manhattan.
Most people who can't afford Manhattan can't really afford those neighborhoods easily either.
Am not sure. Am thinking one person rents the place, then someone comes in and they decide to split the room and split the rent or whatever. Using an example with a one bedroom, if the rent is $1800 split two ways, then it's $900; three ways, it's $600, and so it goes. That is not an environment I want to live in, and I found an area in a building that is very strict about enforcing how many people live there per the lease. It's absurd.
The natives may own, yes, but a lot of the people doing this splitting up nonsense are not natives. They are transplants that think it's *cool*. Cannot imagine having any sex life where you live in a place where all of your personal business is out there. Am wondering how that works??
Exactly. I'm a native with friends from other countries -H1bs with professional jobs - and a lot of them are moving to the nastiest of buildings in Washington Heights by the Columbia U area to live bunched up 3 to 4 in a one bedroom so that they can socialize in Manhattan. I believe that this is a 20 something year old non native thing.
On that note, I think I'd go crazy if I had to live with a roommate. I need my privacy! I don't know how people are used to living like that!
Article is from 2010, shortly after the financial crisis. With demand depressed, landlords had an incentive to break up multi roommate apartments and try to create more demand.
The article celebrating the "creativity" of multiple roommates in 1 and 2 bedroom apartments is from 2016. There's plenty of demand now and far too little supply. There's an incentive for landlords to encourage multiple roommates and drive up rents.
Yeah, I wasn't suggesting that the roommate situations had dissipated or temporary walls were no longer in use. I posted that link mainly because you guys were discussing the legality and that article had decent info.
Though I disagree with what you're saying about landlords wanting to break up the multi roommate situations then. Because that actually decreases demand for apartments if people are unable to convert. Renters who find that they can't convert a 1-br into 2-br are going to shift their search to other buildings or areas that are cheaper. Maybe that will help tighten the overall market but the landlords with the more expensive apartments that used to be convertible are hurt.
Rather, at least according to the article, it seemed safety concerns and city enforcement were what promoted some landlords to take down the walls at the time. With one of them simply taking down the old walls and replacing them with new ones that met building codes.
Sorry this is off topic, but could you tell me how you are copying and pasting from the NY Times? I am using a laptop, not ipad. The new NY Times site doesn't seem to allow me to copy and paste text. Thanks!
Hmmm, I haven't noticed any changes to their website. I just copied and pasted as I've always done before. I was on my laptop and moved my cursor over the text to highlight.
So what. Your priorities are different. I just outlined above the circumstances of the people who take small roommate situations in order to live in Manhattan. Just because you can't understand it doesn't mean their reasoning and choices are not valid and appropriate for their ambitions and needs/desires.
Yep, it's just different priorities. I actually lived in the outer boroughs first, then had to move into Manhattan because I worked really long hours and needed to cut down the commute. (Roommates in both cases in case that matters.) It had a huge impact on my quality of life because I could get an extra hour of sleep every day. It also dramatically improved my social life. For the same amount of rent I paid to share in Manhattan, I probably could have rented my own place in the outer boroughs. But I was barely home anyway and had very good roommate situations where we barely saw each other because we all led active lives.
Hmmm, I haven't noticed any changes to their website. I just copied and pasted as I've always done before. I was on my laptop and moved my cursor over the text to highlight.
Thanks. I just looked it up and it's only with Chrome and only with Windows computers with touchscreens. And that's exactly what I've been using. Will try to find a workaround.
*LOL* Have already said that I live in Manhattan and split my time between Manhattan and an outer borough. I *choose* to live that way and don't miss a thing. Am in Manhattan daily for work or play. Know of all of the good restaurants and frequent them and live in an upper class area. The people working 80 hours are the fools, caring so much about being seen while splitting a room with no privacy. I laugh every time I think about it, and they think that's *cool*. Unbelievable. What has NYC turned into where people move here to shack up with strangers. Smh
A lot of people who work those hours have no choice. During busy season we come in say 9-9:30AM and leave between 12AM-1AM six days a week. I do agree that it's silly for people to live like cockroaches in prime areas when they can get a better deal and more privacy elsewhere. It's incredible that YOU aren't aware of the roommate situation here in NYC. This has been happening long before transplants began flooding the area.
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