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Old 07-16-2017, 01:17 PM
 
18 posts, read 9,020 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pierrepont7731 View Post
You're comparing Coney Island which overall is much more dense compared to the Rockaways, which has areas East and West with no subway access and large areas that consists mainly of private homes. You have 4 subways, an express bus with Downtown and Midtown access. The Rockaways has express bus service only to Midtown or it is the A train. No comparison I my book. You still completely ignore the fact that there's an express bus serving Coney Island 7 days a week that is barely used by local or tourists so I don't buy this nonsense about there being so much untapped potential.
Your claims are not back by facts. Show me numbers, like I have.

Tourists using buses? You're joking right? They can barley navigate the Subway system and you expect them to figure out bus routes? Ferry's are centrally located and easy to navigate and appear less threatening then Subways and the stigma they have. Not sure if you travel and leave New York but the most common question I get about what NY is like is; "Is NY like the movies, ya know? Getting held at knifepoint on the subway for a wallet?". This stigma does exist and does impact tourists pressed on time if Coney Island is worth the visit.


Why are you fixated on busses? Why would someone take a bus and pay more when there is train service for less. If ferry service was in Coney Island and it took 29 minutes to reach Manhattan for just $2.75, why would anyone hop on a train or a bus and sit for an hour and fifteen (on a good day) and pay the same price?

If you really live in the "area" like you claim you do then you too have heard the same stories I have. Many young people have been turned down from lower wage paying jobs in Manhattan due to "commute times". An employer is more likely to hire someone who lives closer as chances of lateness dramatically decreases. Time and time again some of my neighbors have been turned down due to their commute times. A 29 minute ferry changes that and host of other issues Coney Island has faced for decades.

You ignore the current and ever growing population numbers in Coney Island. It's the biggest flaw in your argument.
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Old 07-16-2017, 01:33 PM
 
Location: New York, NY
8,118 posts, read 3,428,184 times
Reputation: 3265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.I View Post
Your claims are not back by facts. Show me numbers, like I have.

Tourists using buses? You're joking right? They can barley navigate the Subway system and you expect them to figure out bus routes? Ferry's are centrally located and easy to navigate and appear less threatening then Subways and the stigma they have. Not sure if you travel and leave New York but the most common question I get about what NY is like is; "Is NY like the movies, ya know? Getting held at knifepoint on the subway for a wallet?". This stigma does exist and does impact tourists pressed on time if Coney Island is worth the visit.


Why are you fixated on busses? Why would someone take a bus and pay more when there is train service for less. If ferry service was in Coney Island and it took 29 minutes to reach Manhattan for just $2.75, why would anyone hop on a train or a bus and sit for an hour and fifteen (on a good day) and pay the same price?

If you really live in the "area" like you claim you do then you too have heard the same stories I have. Many young people have been turned down from lower wage paying jobs in Manhattan due to "commute times". An employer is more likely to hire someone who lives closer as chances of lateness dramatically decreases. Time and time again some of my neighbors have been turned down due to their commute times. A 29 minute ferry changes that and host of other issues Coney Island has faced for decades.

You ignore the current and ever growing population numbers in Coney Island. It's the biggest flaw in your argument.
Am thinking you're full of it. You claim a ferry service for Coney Island would benefit both residents and tourists, then say that residents take cabs to the subway. Then when presented with the express bus which IS cheaper than taking a cab to the subway, you claim it's too much trouble? Really? The X28 runs *the length* of Coney Island to Sea Gate, and you're telling me people can pay more to take a taxi to the subway but won't take the X28 which is a one seat ride and costs less? Not only that, but the express bus is safe compared to the subway.

Meanwhile people in the Rockaways would kill for an express bus on weekends, and here you are with 4 subway lines AND an express bus which isn't used the way that it should be, and you expect taxpayers to subsidize an even more expensive ferry. Unbelievable! Am *fixated* on the express bus because it serves your neighborhood and you don't use it!

Also, never said I lived there. Have said that I frequent the area regularly, especially during the summertime and can tell you the place is packed with people from all over.
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Old 07-16-2017, 01:39 PM
 
18 posts, read 9,020 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pierrepont7731 View Post
Am thinking you're full of it. You claim a ferry service for Coney Island would benefit both residents and tourists, then say that residents take cabs to the subway. Then when presented with the express bus which IS cheaper than taking a cab to the subway, you claim it's too much trouble? Really? The X28 runs *the length* of Coney Island to Sea Gate, and you're telling me people can pay more to take a taxi to the subway but won't take the X28 which is a one seat ride and costs less? Not only that, but the express bus is safe compared to the subway.

Meanwhile people in the Rockaways would kill for an express bus on weekends, and here you are with 4 subway lines AND an express bus which isn't used the way that it should be, and you expect tax payers to subsidize an even more expensive ferry. Unbelievable!
Do you not believe in competition? For far too long we must rely on solely the MTA. Coney Island residents would just simply walk to the ferry. It's centrally located.

You are not understanding the argument. The argument is not options, which you are trying to debate. The argument is about time, which you are failing to debate. Quick ferry service to Coney Island has many, many positive impacts. Many more impacts than what the current Rockaway Ferry will offer their peninsula. Those lines at Stilwell are still important for Coney Island commuters who simply have commutes within Brooklyn.

Stay on topic and debate.
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Old 07-16-2017, 01:45 PM
 
868 posts, read 867,579 times
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Coney Island is already over served by transit. The only reason 4 lines run to Coney Island is because that’s where the rail yard is. There is simply no proof that there is ANY demand for faster service to Coney Island. If there was, the Sea Beach express wouldn’t have been such a failure. It would be a waste of money to have ferry service to Coney Island. I will admit that Coney Island is growing and has potential in the future, but when the day comes when demand to Coney Island exist, than it would make more financial sense to restore the Sea Beach express rather than a silly ferry service. The Ferry takes you to the Manhattan waterfront, not to where people actually need to go, so ferry service is a two fare minimum.
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Old 07-16-2017, 01:51 PM
 
18 posts, read 9,020 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astorian31 View Post
Coney Island is already over served by transit. The only reason 4 lines run to Coney Island is because thatís where the rail yard is. There is simply no proof that there is ANY demand for faster service to Coney Island. If there was, the Sea Beach express wouldnít have been such a failure. It would be a waste of money to have ferry service to Coney Island. I will admit that Coney Island is growing and has potential in the future, but when the day comes when demand to Coney Island exist, than it would make more financial sense to restore the Sea Beach express rather than a silly ferry service. The Ferry takes you to the Manhattan waterfront, not to where people actually need to go, so ferry service is a two fare minimum.
Over served by transit? Do you even take the subway? My morning commute in Coney Island on a weekday usually starts with myself and others standing. I have numbers that prove Coney Island has more daily commuters to Manhattan than the Rockaway. If more people would benefit, why "waste" money on the Rockaways like how Pierre debates? I'm not against Rockaways having a ferry, its a good thing.

Ferry service should be implemented in Coney as well. The route will be the following; Pier 11 directly to Coney Island and onward to Canarsie. This route would benefit way more people than any other ferry route within Citywide.
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Old 07-16-2017, 02:04 PM
 
868 posts, read 867,579 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.I View Post
Over served by transit? Do you even take the subway? My morning commute in Coney Island on a weekday usually starts with myself and others standing. I have numbers that prove Coney Island has more daily commuters to Manhattan than the Rockaway. If more people would benefit, why "waste" money on the Rockaways like how Pierre debates? I'm not against Rockaways having a ferry, its a good thing.

Ferry service should be implemented in Coney as well. The route will be the following; Pier 11 directly to Coney Island and onward to Canarsie. This route would benefit way more people than any other ferry route within Citywide.
I take the subway every day. Coney Island is served by 4 lines and with ONLY 14 million riders. Itís overserved. Period. Main St in Flushing has over twice the ridership and with only 1 line. Thatís an area that is underserved by Transit.

The Rockaways is different, in that itís an area that is poorly served served by transit. They only get half of the A trains, and the A trains only service the eastern part of the Rockaways. Itís completely different than Coney Island, which is drastically over served by the subway, and even a express bus that no one uses. The Rockaways is one of those neighborhoods that is never gonna have huge ridership numbers, but it still needs to have access to transit. Thatís why I support more transit options to places like the Rockaways or other underserved areas like Soundview in the Bronx or Flushing. But it makes to sense to waste money on a neighborhood that already has poorly used transit.
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Old 07-16-2017, 02:12 PM
 
18 posts, read 9,020 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astorian31 View Post
I take the subway every day. Coney Island is served by 4 lines and with ONLY 14 million riders. Itís overserved. Period. Main St in Flushing has over twice the ridership and with only 1 line. Thatís an area that is underserved by Transit.

The Rockaways is different, in that itís an area that is poorly served served by transit. They only get half of the A trains, and the A trains only service the eastern part of the Rockaways. Itís completely different than Coney Island, which is drastically over served by the subway, and even a express bus that no one uses. The Rockaways is one of those neighborhoods that is never gonna have huge ridership numbers, but it still needs to have access to transit. Thatís why I support more transit options to places like the Rockaways or other underserved areas like Soundview in the Bronx or Flushing. But it makes to sense to waste money on a neighborhood that already has poorly used transit.
I hear you. However, repeating your statement does not strengthen your argument. Rockaways has been underservved because the demand is low, look at those utterly low commuter numbers on their lines. Mind you most of those numbers are staying within queens and not onwards to Manhattan. I will be curious to see how many people are on a Rockaway ferry in the dead of winter. If you're looking for waste of money, there it is.

A Coney Island ferry is not a waste of money. Seeing how the position of Coney Island makes it different from other neighborhoods. It's not just a neighborhood, it's an entertainment mecca the generates much needed money and culture into this city. Benefitting commuters is another aspect of a Coney Island Ferry. Where is most vehicular traffic on the Belt Parkway located? South Brooklyn (Coney Island Area).

You two are missing the big picture. Please bring numbers and not ideology to the debate. I want a good debate, not opinions.
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Old 07-16-2017, 02:23 PM
 
868 posts, read 867,579 times
Reputation: 1320
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.I View Post
I hear you. However, repeating your statement does not strengthen your argument. Rockaways has been underservved because the demand is low, look at those utterly low commuter numbers on their lines. Mind you most of those numbers are staying within queens and not onwards to Manhattan. I will be curious to see how many people are on a Rockaway ferry in the dead of winter. If you're looking for waste of money, there it is.

A Coney Island ferry is not a waste of money. Seeing how the position of Coney Island makes it different from other neighborhoods. It's not just a neighborhood, it's an entertainment mecca the generates much needed money and culture into this city. Benefitting commuters is another aspect of a Coney Island Ferry. Where is most vehicular traffic on the Belt Parkway located? South Brooklyn (Coney Island Area).

You two are missing the big picture. Please bring numbers and not ideology to the debate. I want a good debate, not opinions.
There is no need to debate this, your whole premise is that Coney Island deserves faster service to Manhattan because you think it has the ridership and itís a tourist destination. Well guess what, Coney Island had direct Express service to Manhattan, in the form of the Sea Beach Express. You could get to Manhattan in under 30 minutes, on a single fair, with free transfers to other subway lines. It FAILED. Spectacularly. And this was when Coney Island was actually a popular destination. What makes you think a ferry service is warranted now that Coney Island isnít even half the popular destination it used to be?

If Coney Island was underserved by transit, I would agree with you in supporting the ferry. But itís overserved as it is. We need to focus on bringing transit to underserved areas (even if they will never have big riderships.) That can be bringing ferry service to the Rockaways or sound view, or expanding subways into eastern queens. Or even implementing BRT properly. But it makes no sense to waste money on a neighborhood that is already overserved by transits.
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Old 07-16-2017, 03:19 PM
 
Location: New York, NY
8,118 posts, read 3,428,184 times
Reputation: 3265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.I View Post
Do you not believe in competition? For far too long we must rely on solely the MTA. Coney Island residents would just simply walk to the ferry. It's centrally located.

You are not understanding the argument. The argument is not options, which you are trying to debate. The argument is about time, which you are failing to debate. Quick ferry service to Coney Island has many, many positive impacts. Many more impacts than what the current Rockaway Ferry will offer their peninsula. Those lines at Stilwell are still important for Coney Island commuters who simply have commutes within Brooklyn.

Stay on topic and debate.
And I'm telling you why the Rockaways has ferry service and Coney Island doesn't. The City is *ONLY* looking to provide ferry service to *UNDERSERVED* areas and that is why Coney Island does not qualify for such service. You can argue to the cows come home about faster commutes, etc. The fact of the matter is you have FOUR subway lines (TWO provide Express Service) AND an express bus that nobody uses. We don't have endless resources to give to Coney Island. The express bus service is already expensive enough to subsidize and then if you add the ferry on top of it, it's overkill. I support ferry service if you're willing to subsidize it. As it stands, I would much rather give ferry service to an area like the Rockaways than Coney Island.
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Old 07-16-2017, 09:48 PM
 
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Rockaways does not have a significant population, that is why historical there have been less options for them.

If an isolated island had only three people on it and the only way off the island was by ferry, would it make sense to have an Airport, subway and bus just to serve just 3 people? According the both of your logic, yes because they are underserved and only have one method of travel.

Benefiting the most amount of people is what should be considered. In comparing a Rockaway or Coney Island ferry, you two have still not proven that a Rockaway Ferry would be more feasible than a coney island ferry.

Coney Island is underserved, feel free to come on down and take a glance.

Lets switch the argument, I have a feeling there is possibly subtle jealousy of Coney Island becoming the up and coming neighborhood of this city. Let's see your answers to the below. I do not wish for the below scenario to happen, but let's play the "what if" game.

The current Rockaway ferry currently zips by Coney Island. Would it not make sense to have it stop in Coney Island since it already passes by?
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