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Old 07-30-2017, 12:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinjsxx View Post
I'd have the same comment if it was a redhead with freckles or a blue eyed blonde. They could all have some Native American heritage like Elizabeth Warren but like her she doesn't look Native American. If you saw that dancer in some other setting you would think she's Native American? Your observation skills may not be very good.
Again, what is a Native American supposed to look like? Keeping in mind that the peoples of south and Central America are also natives of America. Do you know what the phenotyles of all (of the 100s or 1000s ) tribes look like?

Last edited by jad2k; 07-30-2017 at 12:35 PM..
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Old 07-30-2017, 12:30 PM
 
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
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Pow wows require tribal membership to join the dances and competitons. They don't just let any old Elizabeth Warren or Ward Churchill in. You can be mostly white or black, but if you are in a tribe you have satisfied the burden of proof that you have an ancestor who was a member of that tribe.

The tribes have limited resources, and with scholarships and casino money, they sure don't want every Tom, Dick, and Harry trying to grab a piece of their pie.

Tribal membership is based on proof of descent from indigenous ancestors who were tribal members. Saying family legend is your great grandma was a Cherokee princess or that she had black hair and high cheekbones doesn't cut it. Even a DNA test that says you are 100% Native American won't get you tribal status.

And there are some very dirty words for people who claim to be Native without the proof to back it up. At the mildest end they are mockingly called Chief Wannabe or pretendians.
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Old 07-30-2017, 12:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinjsxx View Post
I'd have the same comment if it was a redhead with freckles or a blue eyed blonde. They could all have some Native American heritage like Elizabeth Warren but like her she doesn't look Native American. If you saw that dancer in some other setting you would think she's Native American? Your observation skills may not be very good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
Pow wows require tribal membership to join the dances and competitons. They don't just let any old Elizabeth Warren or Ward Churchill in. You can be mostly white or black, but if you are in a tribe you have satisfied the burden of proof that you have an ancestor who was a member of that tribe.

The tribes have limited resources, and with scholarships and casino money, they sure don't want every Tom, Dick, and Harry trying to grab a piece of their pie.

Tribal membership is based on proof of descent from indigenous ancestors who were tribal members. Saying family legend is your great grandma was a Cherokee princess or that she had black hair and high cheekbones doesn't cut it. Even a DNA test that says you are 100% Native American won't get you tribal status.

And there are some very dirty words for people who claim to be Native without the proof to back it up. At the mildest end they are mockingly called Chief Wannabe or pretendians.
Martinjsxx likely meant she doesn't look like what he/she THINKS a Native American should look like to him/her...which again is such problematic thinking.

I know three card carrrying native Americans. Not one of them looks like a stereotype.
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Old 07-30-2017, 02:09 PM
 
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A lot of card carrying Cherokees are like 63/64ths white.
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Old 07-30-2017, 02:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jad2k View Post
Martinjsxx likely meant she doesn't look like what he/she THINKS a Native American should look like to him/her...which again is such problematic thinking.

I know three card carrrying native Americans. Not one of them looks like a stereotype.
Problematic thinking? LOL. I was just making a comment. They make Native Americans carry cards? Now that's a problem.

It's not a stereotype to say an Asian American has certain physical characteristics, or an African American, or South Asian, etc.
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Old 07-30-2017, 02:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
Pow wows require tribal membership to join the dances and competitons. They don't just let any old Elizabeth Warren or Ward Churchill in. You can be mostly white or black, but if you are in a tribe you have satisfied the burden of proof that you have an ancestor who was a member of that tribe.

The tribes have limited resources, and with scholarships and casino money, they sure don't want every Tom, Dick, and Harry trying to grab a piece of their pie.

Tribal membership is based on proof of descent from indigenous ancestors who were tribal members. Saying family legend is your great grandma was a Cherokee princess or that she had black hair and high cheekbones doesn't cut it. Even a DNA test that says you are 100% Native American won't get you tribal status.

And there are some very dirty words for people who claim to be Native without the proof to back it up. At the mildest end they are mockingly called Chief Wannabe or pretendians.
The Thunderbirds are a dance company. They can use any criteria they want to let someone join their troupe. It's not like they can't let someone in who's 25% Native American or whatever. If they wanted to admit Elizabeth Warren they could, it has nothing to do with casinos. That said, I don't doubt the legitimacy of the Thunderbirds. I was just commenting on one dancer.
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Old 07-30-2017, 03:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinjsxx View Post
Problematic thinking? LOL. I was just making a comment. They make Native Americans carry cards? Now that's a problem.

It's not a stereotype to say an Asian American has certain physical characteristics, or an African American, or South Asian, etc.
They don't "make" Native Americans carry cards but native Americans are entitled to certain things in this county, and to get these things you need to prove your native affiliation and apply for tribal membership. That is why somone with proven Native American heritage may "carry a card". For example one woman I know usually gets her gas on the reservation because it's cheap but has to "show her card" in order to buy that cheap gas.

As for your comment about looking a certain way, there are many different types of Asians as there are Africans and their looks will vary based on what cultural group (and what part of the continent) they are from. Also another point is because of the history of this country, there are African Americans that don't "look black" yet through their familial and cultural affiliation, they are black/identify as black. That's the point that I and others were making about that woman. How many actual native Americans (not Native American portrayals in film...) have you met and what do they look like?
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Old 07-30-2017, 04:21 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jad2k View Post
They don't "make" Native Americans carry cards but native Americans are entitled to certain things in this county, and to get these things you need to prove your native affiliation and apply for tribal membership. That is why somone with proven Native American heritage may "carry a card". For example one woman I know usually gets her gas on the reservation because it's cheap but has to "show her card" in order to buy that cheap gas.

As for your comment about looking a certain way, there are many different types of Asians as there are Africans and their looks will vary based on what cultural group (and what part of the continent) they are from. Also another point is because of the history of this country, there are African Americans that don't "look black" yet through their familial and cultural affiliation, they are black/identify as black. That's the point that I and others were making about that woman. How many actual native Americans (not Native American portrayals in film...) have you met and what do they look like?
Someone who looks like Elizabeth Warren is very unlikely to have the same life experience as an actual Native American even if they identify as a Native.
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Old 07-30-2017, 04:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by l1995 View Post
Someone who looks like Elizabeth Warren is very unlikely to have the same life experience as an actual Native American even if they identify as a Native.
And the same can be said for African Americans that have light complexions, especially the ones that are light enough to "pass" for white.
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Old 07-30-2017, 04:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jad2k View Post
And the same can be said for African Americans that have light complexions, especially the ones that are light enough to "pass" for white.
Even someone with 25% black ancestey would probably not quite look white. If they have so little black ancestry that they look 100% white, then no I don't think they're black.
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