Square Footage in NYC

[addarc]

Brokers are not always lying. You have your usable square footage, which is your apartment. If you live in a complex, with a main lobby, elevator lobby, janitor closets, electrical closets, storage areas, and mechanical areas, you pay for that as well, because you use it.

Your usable and rentable are different. You only see your rentable number. Here is how that works. They take your usable area (your apt), and multiply your percentage (for example, you have 20% of the usable area on the floor if there are 5 units total (ON THAT FLOOR)) by the FLOOR COMMON AREA, which is corridor, lobby (on your floor), electrical, storage and whatever else is on your floor. So if your apt is 500 s.f. and there is 200 s.f of floor common area, you will take 20% of that. Bringing your total to 540s.f.

Not done yet, now we have building common. Your main lobby, main electrical, storage, mechanical space, etc, that is not on your floor, usually in the basement, 1st floor, mezzanine, and roof. So if this all adds up to 1000 s.f. you take a percentage. BUT, it isnt the 20%, because that was for your floor. Lets say you only have 5% of the usable in the building (because you have to count all other units on other floors).

So, 540 sf x (5% of 1000 = 50) = 610 total rentable square feet. This is what you pay for because they are things that you need in the building.

So your total ratio is 22% above actual usable (which is high). Often, buildings will take a number around 20% and use it for all units. Sometimes they dont like the low percentage, and make up a 30% ratio. So, there really is no way to figure out how to find this out unless you hire a professional (such as myself) to measure and calculate. Realtors have no standard to follow, it is based on how much they want to make, and that is usually it.

But now you know that when the number is different than what you measure, it doesnt mean they are lying, it should make sense that you need to pay for your use of the building.

If you want to know more, check out Aube Design + Devolpment

[Henna]

Right, so my one bedroom apartment is 3000 sq feet now that i've added in "my" part of the basement, lobby, mailboxes, handicap ramp, front walk, back garden, stairwells, garbage room, laundry room and fire escape. Can't wait til it's time to sell! Bet I'll get a lot of takers for a 3000 sq foot apartment in NYC listed for under 300K.

[addarc]

Most of the work I do is in commercial high rises, so the rules are a little different. I just explained the best I could. Usually the only square footage that counts is if it is fully enclosed, so your fire escape, garden, ramps, etc., do not count.

Also, something I forgot to mention is floor penetrations. Stairwells, Elevator shafts, mechanical/pipe shafts and anything that penetrate floor slabs are not included in any rentable or usable number. So you do not pay for those. They are included in a Gross SF number though.

So, in a way, you brought up a good point. That if you already own, when you are looking to sell, you may be able to up your footage.

[UpstaterInBklyn]

Realtors have no standard to follow, it is based on how much they want to make, and that is usually it.

Sounds like lying to me.

And it reinforces exactly what has emerged as theme in this thread -- that agents inflate the square footage arbitrarily.

I'll keep my tape measure handy.

[Henna]

Originally Posted by addarc

Most of the work I do is in commercial high rises, so the rules are a little different. .

My understanding is that commercial real estate square footage IS totally different than residential and that it's expected that the totals you give for commercial space do include percentage of hallways etc. That's fine if commercial is like that -but this thread is not about commercial space.

And if any realtor is advertising an apartment for rent or sale in NY and including a percentage of hallways and lobbies etc in the measurement, well, then, I'm pretty sure they are lying.

[UpstaterInBklyn]

Yes, Henna, commercial real estate is leased strictly by the square foot.

Rental rates in commercial leases state "X square feet at X dollars per square foot". AND the usable vs. rentable space is also spelled out in the lease.

For a residential renter, the only relevant fact is usable square feet. Sure, the renter is paying for the common areas, but this has no bearing on the what the real estate agents advertise as the square footage of the apartment, which is implied as usable space.

Imagine this ad in craigslist:

HUGE 1,000 SQUARE FOOT APARTMENT !!!!!!
700 SQUARE FEET USABLE !!!!!!!!!

[addarc]

Originally Posted by UpstaterInBklyn

Sure, the renter is paying for the common areas, but this has no bearing on the what the real estate agents advertise as the square footage of the apartment, which is implied as usable space.

Imagine this ad in craigslist:

HUGE 1,000 SQUARE FOOT APARTMENT !!!!!!
700 SQUARE FEET USABLE !!!!!!!!!

Well, being that agents are rarely honest, why would they not advertise rentable only? How many people really will measure the space prior to signing the lease to verify? I probably wouldn't even do that, unless it is blatantly obvious. Also, the numbers may just keep getting passed from owner to owner, realtor to realtor and has not been verified for decades, which is a scary thought.

[Otis_Nevins]

It's all about location, not space. Location, location, location, did I mention location? If you're looking for space, have lots and lots ($ 1 million+) of money.

[Henna]

Originally Posted by addarc

Well, being that agents are rarely honest, why would they not advertise rentable only? How many people really will measure the space prior to signing the lease to verify? I probably wouldn't even do that, unless it is blatantly obvious. Also, the numbers may just keep getting passed from owner to owner, realtor to realtor and has not been verified for decades, which is a scary thought.

Some people don't need to measure the space to know how many square feet the apartment is. When I was looking for a place I did start out by measuring and calculating, but after seeing 10 or 15 places I began to know exactly how to judge what a 12 x 20 foot living room looks like. I could look at the width and height of a window and know with a fair degree of certainty how much space was on either side (as it related to ceiling height).

I know how to look at the length of a wall and pretty quickly imagine how much space a 4 by 8 ft piece of plywood would take up on that wall. If two pieces would fit sideways, then it's a 16 foot long wall. Multiplying numbers and adding in an estimate for hallways and closets isn't too hard either.

I've seen lots of ads (Ardor realty comes to mind) where there are photos of rooms with dimensions listed below the photo. I can take a one-second look at a photo of a living room they say is 15 feet wide and know pretty much with absolute certainty that the room is actually 12 feet wide. Of course I need some markers to help me - like a photo that includes a wall with windows. (Also I am only good with apartments that are less than 1200 sq feet. If you show me photos of a huge loft I am not going to be able to estimate the square footage.)

I've noticed how many people think they can get away with lying about various things - but what they tend not to think about is that they may be lying to someone who can spot their lie.

[Classicalguy]

At these prices, they should advertise by the square inch! Forget 400 sq ft, think 57,600 sq in!