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Yes thats a wonderful point....so you went from suggesting that somehow NYC is not safe and in fact secretly crime ridden, using the examples of the 1 dead tourist, to now saying NYC is safe overall but there are neighborhoods that YOU would not want to be in after dark. I believe the same can be said for EVERY community/state in the country..and the world for that matter...some areas are safer than others. Thanks and your point has been well taken....nonetheless the city IS the safest big city in the country. You can continue to argue about the exceptions though....thats what fear mongers do.
Nooyowker...don't worries...I suspect this one won't be walking a beat anytime soon...
Maybe I'll be the only one who hasn't served a prison term... We all know how trustworthy NYPD has made itself.
Ha, whatever, I'm out. Yuppies don't know the slightest bit about the hood compared to people I know who work night shifts in the hood.
Your full of ish. People have such short memories. NYPD has a long history of corruption don't make it like some recent phenomenon. Ever heard of Serpico or the "Dirty 30." Or Tammany Hall way before then.
And for the record, not only am I NOT a yuppie, I am a longtime, 3 generation resident of Mott Haven, and not just "one of your friends who works the nightshift." I am sure they have intimate knowledge of ONLY the negative, criminal element of the neighborhood, as every cop would as they typically ONLY deal with that segment of society in EVERY community. A reasonable person would understand that and not believe this is somehow representative of life for everyone, or even most people, in the nieghborhood.
However you are free to take the "advise" of "cops who work the nightshift" and then no doubt scurry home back to Westchester, rather than someone who LIVES, day and night, and knows BOTH sides of the community, and not JUST the negative element. But that would not make fear mongering as easy...
No worries Nooyowker...that one just comes on here to poke and start arguments...he knows little about the city except the supposed "horror" stories he gets from other biggoted cops who run back to Westchester.
The city is much better than it was. I agree with this wholeheartedly. However, there are two main reasons why NYC is safer to day than it was back in 1990.
1.) You have less high crime neighborhoods. The LES, Red Hook, Washington Heights, Inwood were among the worst neighborhoods back in 1990. Today, they are among the safest (although drugs plague the areas). Time Square was a robbery haven 18 years ago, today is relatively safe. Also the subways were a muggers express. Back in 1990, there were 43 subway crimes per day, in 2007 there were 4.
2.) This is the main reason. Back in 1990, you had drug crews just killing each other off like nothing. This happened all throughout the Bronx, Uptown, Brooklyn and Queens. Most of the murders back then were due to drugs. With drugs, come increases in robberies, assaults, etc.....the druggies needed to get their pay in order to buy the drugs.
Oh and I forgot to mention that there was a shortage of police officers in 1990.
This gets me to my point. Even in 1990, if you were not involved with drugs...you were not likely to be murdered. In fact, more of the murders today occur because of petty reasons. You look at someone wrong, you shove somebody, you talk to someone's girl etc....so as crazy as it may sound ....for the average resident the chances of being murdered in 2007 is not THAT far off than it was in 1990. Sure crazy drug dealers killed innocent civilans aswell, but that number is not insanely high. Now for drug dealers its a different stroy. Chance of being murdered in 2007 is much much much lower than it was in 1990. That is why those 2,245 homicides have to be looked at closely. The number was high for two reasons, more quantity of bad hoods and competion in the drug game.
I will not dispute robbery and other crimes however. You are infinitely safe from that in 2007 in comparison to 1990. Many of the people being robbed and assaulted in 1990 were actually innocent people.
As for hoods...to me any place with high crime, drugs, low-income people is a ghetto. Appearance doesn't make it a ghetto. But most ghetto's are gritty and dirty, with graffiti all over. Most of the Bronx, Uptown, Brooklyn and Queens have ghettos.
And I disagree. Your walking on a block with 20 dudes on the corner standing around. Your outnumbered 20:1, dont think that any of those guys are going to turn on their boy and help you. They could care less. You know who else doesn't care? The people around you. They aren't going to be caught up in your mess. Ever heard of stop snitching? They'll act like it never happened. Just now around my way, a dude just threw a young lady on the floor and was hitting her...nobody stepped in. Funny thing is that people avoid those blocks anyways, so your walking solo most likely. Once you passed that block, you think you're safe. Haha guess again. The next block same thing, and the next, and the next, and the next etc etc. The cross streets same thing. You have no escape.
Walk through East St Louis.....chanches are you're 1 to 1. Most likely you can pass through there unharmed. That place is abandoned. And im sorry I would rather go though an abandoned hood, than a block of tenements.
I have to somewhat disagree with your point SuperMario. I think things have changed far more than you give credit/understand. I think the entire mentality of the city has changed as well, including residents for a few reasons:
1-Now that almost all neighborhoods are up for grabs not only by locals, but increasingly by transplants from other parts of the city, immigrants, and those from outside the borough, neighborhoods are getting an infusion of people, in some cases an explosion of people, in some cases a trickle, that is finally exposing people to the other side of life. I believe it is having an effect, and that the extreme isolation/segregation of yesteryear is decreasing.
2-The huge capital improvements across the city, in every community, rich and poor, is having a profound affect on residents. They see that the areas are cleaner, nicer buildings going up, expensive home being built, and they realize that there is something of value in these communities, and people tend to take care of things that they value. They genuinely enjoy all the nice buildings, new amenities, parks, trees, cleaner streets, better retail options, etc...and tend to maintain the area better as a result.
3-Regarding crime and your example of the 20 homies hanging on the corner....I tend to think that TODAY they are far less likely to bother you. The cops swarm these areas and they are looking for ANY reason to get these people off the streets and locked up. They then can get them AND their families out of the projects, and that cycle has an effect...and is having an effect in people thinking twice about doing something stupid because they see what has happened to their friends AND their friends' families as a result. Best to just chill with the homies and act a fool than bother with some hipster/yuppie/anyone and bring heat to your friends, your spot, and your family...cuz everyone is gonna go down these days.
So I think things have changed moreso than you believe. Yes I do not doubt that there is a guy beating some lady to a pulp and nobody intervenes..but you know why? Because the people probably know them in the neighborhood, and know not to bother with them b/c it's not worth anyone's time. It's not that they don't care, it's that you can't help those that cannot help themselves. Why bother with these people beating themselves to a pulp...they are clearly from the neighborhood, and this is how people act. It is something different when it is someone who is clearly NOT from the neighborhood or part of that "element"..I would step in as would others.
Red Hook is an example of what you said. There are plenty of neighborhoods with boarded up buildings and burnt out buildings. There are plenty of neighborhoods with graffiti, homeless people, gang members, drug dealers, etc. If you keep thinking like that you might end up like the 500 people who thought they were invulnerable last year because you think you can walk around without a problem. But when I hear people say things like this it makes me question their credibility. Walk around East New York at midnight and maybe your story will change a bit.
Umm, I have walked around East New York at midnight since I have a friend that lives in the Sutter Houses over there. I never felt uncomfortble in the location that I was at.
I haven't been to Red Hook in years but I thought that the neighborhood was changing fairly rapidly, at least according to the various news reports that I read about the gentrification of the neighborhood.
The basic thing that I am stating is that it is all a matter of perception. Look, I wouldn't walk around Beverly Hills at midnight. In fact, when I went to California and walked into Beverly Hills, I got out as fast as possible because I was uncomfortable. Did I think that it was a hot crime spot, No but it was not comfortable for me to walk around in at night. I'm not advocating people to walk through Harlem, Bed-Stuy, Crown Heights etc, late at night. In fact, if you are walking around the neighborhood and don't live there, I would probably question why were you there in the first place. Most of time, people have a destination in mind when they go into any neighborhood at night, so I doubt anyone would just randomly walk around and look at the moon. Since most people have a destination in mind, I think they are pretty safe. You get off the train, or the bus, or out of a cab and you walk maybe 2 blocks to get to your destination. If I am unfamiliar with a neighborhood, I am going to try and get as close as possible to my destination. This is why I don't consider these areas unsafe unless you are just so out of place, you become a target.
Now, if you are involved in gangs and the drug trade, etc., that puts a different light on things because that is a whole other sub culture but it is not indicative to any particular neighborhood, as those sub cultures can be anywhere. And if you are involved in one of those sub cultures, crime and violence tend to be more prevalent then the average person who lives in those neighborhoods or any neighborhood.
And believe me, I have no notions of invulnerability about me. I have been a victim of crime but that did not make me think that all of a sudden my neighborhood was a hot crime spot or that I shouldn't come out of my house. I got mugged for the reason that I stated above, walking around late at night, looking at the moon and not paying attention to what was going on around me. All in all, New York City is a fairly safe city, "ghettos" and all.
Those were some very good points. I never looked at it in that manner. The influx of new residents, family losing housing because of 1 person. Those are really good thoughts. Thanks much to everyone for all of the various insights. This is a really good thread.
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