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Old 07-17-2018, 11:44 AM
 
7,099 posts, read 4,638,649 times
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A storm is going. Flash floods, etc.

I probably will head out as soon as it starts raining to avoid train delays, congestion, etc.

Oh tiddays!
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Old 07-17-2018, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Manhattan
20,349 posts, read 26,896,590 times
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Wonderful downpour for the last half hour. Temperature fell 15 degrees.
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Old 07-17-2018, 07:21 PM
 
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Temperatures may have dropped, but it still is muggy as heck outside. Humidity levels are in the 90% ranges even with it being *just* 70F outside.


In many ways low temps with high moisture levels is actually worse.


Air conditioners either must be set very low or won't come on, and even then many will cycle off faster due to lack of "heat". However that does nothing for removing moisture from air. Think of when you go into a store or someplace when it isn't that hot outside, but the AC has turned indoors into an igloo.


Best solution are those who have central HVAC systems with a dehumidifier. Other than that getting such a stand alone device to drain some of the moisture out of air.
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Old 07-17-2018, 07:25 PM
 
1,860 posts, read 535,698 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
Temperatures may have dropped, but it still is muggy as heck outside. Humidity levels are in the 90% ranges even with it being *just* 70F outside.


In many ways low temps with high moisture levels is actually worse.


Air conditioners either must be set very low or won't come on, and even then many will cycle off faster due to lack of "heat". However that does nothing for removing moisture from air. Think of when you go into a store or someplace when it isn't that hot outside, but the AC has turned indoors into an igloo.


Best solution are those who have central HVAC systems with a dehumidifier. Other than that getting such a stand alone device to drain some of the moisture out of air.
Couldn’t agree more .
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Old 07-19-2018, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Manhattan
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Yep, I agree.


I tossed out my dehumidifier in my last apartment because they are pricey to run and I got tired of emptying the water bucket.
Now my electricity is free and I could use the dehumidification. A/C's have a dehumidify setting, but that is all for show. On a night in the 70's an AC will actually RAISE the humidity, as Bugsy pointed out.


Last week it fell to the low 70's outside and I woke in the middle of the night to a bed soaked in my perspiration and a humidity of 75% (I have a humidistat.)
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Old 07-19-2018, 10:05 AM
 
1,860 posts, read 535,698 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kefir King View Post
Yep, I agree.


I tossed out my dehumidifier in my last apartment because they are pricey to run and I got tired of emptying the water bucket.
Now my electricity is free and I could use thr dehumidification. A/C's have a dehumidify setting, but that is all for show. On a night in the 70's an AC will actually RAISE the humidity, as Bugsy pointed out.


Last week it fell to the low 70's outside and I woke in the middle of the night to a bed soaked in my perspiration and a humidity of 75% (I have a humidistat.)
Ugh. Well, I think we're about to get a week of rain, so that will be a welcome relief.
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Old 07-19-2018, 05:21 PM
 
18,693 posts, read 12,133,323 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kefir King View Post
Yep, I agree.


I tossed out my dehumidifier in my last apartment because they are pricey to run and I got tired of emptying the water bucket.
Now my electricity is free and I could use the dehumidification. A/C's have a dehumidify setting, but that is all for show. On a night in the 70's an AC will actually RAISE the humidity, as Bugsy pointed out.


Last week it fell to the low 70's outside and I woke in the middle of the night to a bed soaked in my perspiration and a humidity of 75% (I have a humidistat.)

While have no proof, am sure people running their AC units when temps are 70F or less for various reasons is why NYC apartments are hard on such units. Seems like every three or five years people are needing a new unit because the old one "died".


Walking around last night (which was quite cool but maybe a tad humid), people had their ACs on full blast....


All air conditioners attempt to keep at least a 20 degree difference between indoor and outdoor temps. Thus as it becomes cooler outdoors the unit must work harder to reach (or attempt to) that balance.


Am sure many of you have noticed that overnight if temps drop outside, indoors becomes cooler to near igloo like even if you've not changed the thermostat. The other thing is when temps outdoors aren't that warm AC thermostat must be set lower to even get the thing to come on (condenser). Again this is why on days or nights when it isn't that warm you go into some stores or buildings and it is like an igloo.
https://www.doityourself.com/stry/ke...om-freezing-up
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Old 07-19-2018, 05:24 PM
 
18,693 posts, read 12,133,323 times
Reputation: 12285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kefir King View Post
Yep, I agree.


I tossed out my dehumidifier in my last apartment because they are pricey to run and I got tired of emptying the water bucket.
Now my electricity is free and I could use the dehumidification. A/C's have a dehumidify setting, but that is all for show. On a night in the 70's an AC will actually RAISE the humidity, as Bugsy pointed out.


Last week it fell to the low 70's outside and I woke in the middle of the night to a bed soaked in my perspiration and a humidity of 75% (I have a humidistat.)
Anything that cools or heats is pricey to run on electricity, especially with NYC's high rates.


Clothes dryers, refrigerators, air conditioners, dehumidifiers (use heat to remove moisture instead of cooling), space heaters, etc....
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Old 07-20-2018, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Manhattan
20,349 posts, read 26,896,590 times
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Using electricity to produce heat is a terrible waste of high quality energy.


That is why I admire Penn South's cogeneration system. They make their own electricity with natural gas and use the low quality waste heat to provide heat and hot water.
I brought this up to our board and the response I got was: "Yes, we are putting that in, our new burners can use oil or gas" I could not make them understand what cogeneration was.


You are correct, Bugsy, AC's work poorly on cool nights, the word DAMP comes to mind.


My AC and most have a flaw, they blow air when the compressor is off. Even on the Energy Saver setting my fan blows for two minutes after the compressor cuts off. THus in damp cool weather the evaporator (cold fins indoors) gets covered in condensed water, If the fan cut out, this water would drip down and out BUT if the fan runs, indoor air will be circulated over the wet fins brining all that condensate back as 100% humid air.
I have thought of delving into my unit to kill that 2 minute delay, but if it is built into a semiconductor controller, I would find that impossible.


Manufacturers do this to get the efficiency numbers up by evaporating this cold water. Evaporative cooling I great in Arizona, not so much in NYC or Florida. A manufacturer who could beat this problem could cash in big time.


Best I can advise people is to not get an oversized unit. A unit whose compressor runs as close to fuil time is the best.
Also for reasons a bit too complicated for this thread, the more efficient an air conditioner is, the worse is the humidity problem.


Perhaps in this climate the $100 Haier (or two) is a more sensible buy than the $499 Friedrich. I had an ancient Emerson with an EER of 6 that didn't have this problem. It just blew fuses.

Last edited by Kefir King; 07-20-2018 at 09:42 AM..
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Old 07-20-2018, 11:04 AM
 
Location: In the heights
20,651 posts, read 22,199,942 times
Reputation: 10646
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kefir King View Post
Using electricity to produce heat is a terrible waste of high quality energy.


That is why I admire Penn South's cogeneration system. They make their own electricity with natural gas and use the low quality waste heat to provide heat and hot water.
I brought this up to our board and the response I got was: "Yes, we are putting that in, our new burners can use oil or gas" I could not make them understand what cogeneration was.


You are correct, Bugsy, AC's work poorly on cool nights, the word DAMP comes to mind.


My AC and most have a flaw, they blow air when the compressor is off. Even on the Energy Saver setting my fan blows for two minutes after the compressor cuts off. THus in damp cool weather the evaporator (cold fins indoors) gets covered in condensed water, If the fan cut out, this water would drip down and out BUT if the fan runs, indoor air will be circulated over the wet fins brining all that condensate back as 100% humid air.
I have thought of delving into my unit to kill that 2 minute delay, but if it is built into a semiconductor controller, I would find that impossible.


Manufacturers do this to get the efficiency numbers up by evaporating this cold water. Evaporative cooling I great in Arizona, not so much in NYC or Florida. A manufacturer who could beat this problem could cash in big time.


Best I can advise people is to not get an oversized unit. A unit whose compressor runs as close to fuil time is the best.
Also for reasons a bit too complicated for this thread, the more efficient an air conditioner is, the worse is the humidity problem.


Perhaps in this climate the $100 Haier (or two) is a more sensible buy than the $499 Friedrich. I had an ancient Emerson with an EER of 6 that didn't have this problem. It just blew fuses.
Electricity is not necessarily a bad method of generating heat depending on how that electricity was derived and how that electricity is used. Most people are thinking about electrical resistance heaters when they think of heating via electricity, but heat pumps are actually much more efficient. What's always seemed odd to me is the lack of well done integrated heat pump and refrigeration systems. There's a lot of basic appliances and systems where we essentially are trying to "move" heat to concentrate in one area rather than another and we want both heating and cooling in different contexts often in systems that are quite close to each other.

I do like the cogeneration systems though and those are some great insights on air conditioners you've got there.

Last edited by OyCrumbler; 07-20-2018 at 11:14 AM..
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