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Old 07-15-2018, 09:00 PM
 
11,493 posts, read 5,569,598 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizzles View Post
If you walk around/take a bus through the South Bronx you can generally get a good feel for what is original and what is replacing what was destroyed. I do agree with most people here that the further west you went the less arson. The area along the 4 seems to have far, far less damage than along the 2/5 which at times you can tell whole blocks were simply wiped out. Good telltale signs are rowhomes that have vinyl siding, buildings with newer windows, taller/shorter buildings than the average 5/6 floor walkup. It seems the worst areas were Melrose, Morrisana, Longwood, Mott haven, Soundview, West Farms and parts of Tremont.
I agree, except most of the vinyl siding rowhomes are prewar. And yeah, signs of newer construction include boring, featureless rowhomes with front driveways, midrise buildings with no fire escapes, etc.

I also wouldn't lump in Soundview with the rest of that list. Most of the rowhomes there look original to me.

And yeah, The Bronx along with 4, D, and 6 looks far, far more intact than the 2/5. Webster Ave seems to be the cutoff, but Belmont is Eest of Webster Ave and it looks mostly intact aside from some pockets in the South. And the 2/5 train neighborhoods North of West Farms also look intact.
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Old 07-15-2018, 09:04 PM
Status: "Halloween! Can't wait." (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: Manhattan
1,790 posts, read 761,668 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pierrepont7731 View Post
This says a lot about the decay of the Bronx:

Robert Moses and the Bronx:

1. The Cross Bronx Expressway


The “Cross Bronx,” as it is known colloquially, was the brainchild of Robert Moses. But historically it has been blamed for bisecting the Bronx roughly in half causing a migration of middle and upper class residents to the north and leaving the south portion to become an underserved slum of low-income residents. It displaced as many as 5,000 families when an alternate proposed route along Crotona Park would have only affected 1-2% of that amount. Robert Moses is accused of favoring “car culture” placing an importance on building highways instead of subways in order to grow the city. This can be seen as a segregationist ideology since it ignores the needs of the large population in NYC that can not afford a car. Also the construction of large highways like the CBE shelved greater NYC Transit projects including the Second Avenue Subway. Not only did it have these ill effects, but to this day the expressway remains a headache for commuters with stacked and entangled roadways such as the Highbridge and Bruckner Interchanges. This MIT report has a few more examples of Moses’ failures associated with the CBE as well as a few more of his projects Massachusetts that were shelved after his reputation plummeted in 1968.


He essentially played a huge role in gutting the Bronx of its middle class and upper class residents. That likely explains why even today the Bronx has very few upper class residents.

https://untappedcities.com/2013/12/1...-robert-moses/
Yeah. That's it. You're bringing it all back. I remember at the time feeling very angry at what he did to all those once vibrant neighborhoods. Just able to run roughshod & get away with it. That he was allowed to do that. Didn't he have a nemesis. Forget her name but she was some kind of activist. Jewish (not that that's important). Just trying to remember her name. She opposed Moses all the way. And was his main political nemesis.
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Old 07-15-2018, 09:06 PM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
5,503 posts, read 17,209,933 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by l1995 View Post
ENY and Brownsville have a lot of old school rowhomes too, though. But is it just me, or do the Nehemiah rowhouses look way more out of place in South/Central Bronx as opposed to Eastern Brooklyn?



Because it turns the whole block into an active driveway. Meaning, higher chance of pedestrians being hit by cars backing up



Yeah they're fugly.



But even the renovated buildings are a huge step up from what you see in Longwood and West Farms. The overwhelming majority of the architecture West of Webster Ave looks original to me. The neighborhoods you listed still have walls of prewar buildings throughout the neighborhood (with exceptions)

But thanks for the thread, I will read it in depth later
Welcome. It's not a long thread, just a few photos up of University Heights.

I would say that most of the Bronx south of Fordham had issues with the arson. Off the top of my head, I'm sure Southern Blvd, Crotona, West Farms, Prospect areas in the 170's - 180's resembled the University, Grand, Davidson, Harrison, Aqueduct areas in the 170's -180's, but probably with more large swaths of vacant lots because those decrepit abandoned/ buildings were already razed/bulldozed by the time the 1980s hit as they were hit first. The West Bronx was the final straw, the last areas to get hit.

I will venture to say that it's likely that the Blocks off the Grand concourse, like Creston/Walton/Valentine/Webster etc fared better than the the other areas.

No doubt the Charlotte street/Longwood/Mott Haven/Hunts Points were the worst hit areas.

I know from prior photos that the 160s and Findley, Teller, Monroe etc areas were bombed out as well.

Not sure how Soundview, or Fordham-Bedford fared.

Feel free to look at any streets/avenues you want from the NYC municipal Website.
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Old 07-15-2018, 09:11 PM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
5,503 posts, read 17,209,933 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizzles View Post
If you walk around/take a bus through the South Bronx you can generally get a good feel for what is original and what is replacing what was destroyed. I do agree with most people here that the further west you went the less arson. The area along the 4 seems to have far, far less damage than along the 2/5 which at times you can tell whole blocks were simply wiped out. Good telltale signs are rowhomes that have vinyl siding, buildings with newer windows, taller/shorter buildings than the average 5/6 floor walkup. It seems the worst areas were Melrose, Morrisana, Longwood, Mott haven, Soundview, West Farms and parts of Tremont.
Disagree. The area west of the 4 train from W 174th up to W 183rd had quite a bit of arson. You can refer to the photos I put up. I actually think the areas just east of Jerome, all the way maybe to Webster, fared better, except in the 160's.
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Old 07-15-2018, 09:13 PM
 
Location: In the heights
20,166 posts, read 21,767,856 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeran View Post
Yeah. That's it. You're bringing it all back. I remember at the time feeling very angry at what he did to all those once vibrant neighborhoods. Just able to run roughshod & get away with it. That he was allowed to do that. Didn't he have a nemesis. Forget her name but she was some kind of activist. Jewish (not that that's important). Just trying to remember her name. She opposed Moses all the way. And was his main political nemesis.
You’re probably thinking Jane Jacobs.

The Cross Bronx should have never been done the way it was, but it’s there. Hoping the city caps parts of it someday, but that’ll almost certainly only be done after gentrification has really utterly changed the neighborhood.
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Old 07-15-2018, 09:15 PM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
5,503 posts, read 17,209,933 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pierrepont7731 View Post
Funny. I always thought of Fordham Rd is sort of being the buffer, despite it not looking the greatest in parts (stuck in a time warp).
Agree with this. Haven't really looked, but north of Fordham was likely not nearly as bad as south.
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Old 07-15-2018, 09:17 PM
 
11,493 posts, read 5,569,598 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperMario View Post
Welcome. It's not a long thread, just a few photos up of University Heights.

I would say that most of the Bronx south of Fordham had issues with the arson. Off the top of my head, I'm sure Southern Blvd, Crotona, West Farms, Prospect areas in the 170's - 180's resembled the University, Grand, Davidson, Harrison, Aqueduct areas in the 170's -180's, but probably with more large swaths of vacant lots because those decrepit abandoned/ buildings were already razed/bulldozed by the time the 1980s hit as they were hit first. The West Bronx was the final straw, the last areas to get hit.

I will venture to say that it's likely that the Blocks off the Grand concourse, like Creston/Walton/Valentine/Webster etc fared better than the the other areas.

No doubt the Charlotte street/Longwood/Mott Haven/Hunts Points were the worst hit areas.

I know from prior photos that the 160s and Findley, Teller, Monroe etc areas were bombed out as well.

Not sure how Soundview, or Fordham-Bedford fared.

Feel free to look at any streets/avenues you want from the NYC municipal Website.
If Grand, Davidson, etc. were hit as hard as Longwood/West Farms, then why are they mostly intact looking? I do see some missing pieces here and there but these avenues look much, much better than the blocks of Southern Blvd

I actually looked at the length of the blocks you listed (Findley, Teller, Monroe) and they look pretty intact. But once I go East of Park Ave, I see in immediate increase in blocks that look like they were destroyed.
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Old 07-15-2018, 09:18 PM
Status: "Halloween! Can't wait." (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: Manhattan
1,790 posts, read 761,668 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
You’re probably thinking Jane Jacobs.
That's it! And I was wrong. She wasn't Jewish. Protestant.
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Old 07-15-2018, 09:19 PM
 
11,493 posts, read 5,569,598 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperMario View Post
Agree with this. Haven't really looked, but north of Fordham was likely not nearly as bad as south.
If you take a google tour of Norwood, Bedford Park, Fordham Heights, etc., it looks almost all intact.
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Old 07-15-2018, 09:23 PM
 
Location: New York, NY
7,587 posts, read 2,703,917 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by l1995 View Post
If Grand, Davidson, etc. were hit as hard as Longwood/West Farms, then why are they mostly intact looking? I do see some missing pieces here and there but these avenues look much, much better than the blocks of Southern Blvd

I actually looked at the length of the blocks you listed (Findley, Teller, Monroe) and they look pretty intact. But once I go East of Park Ave, I see in immediate increase in blocks that look like they were destroyed.
It could have something to do with the areas themselves historically. University Heights wasn't always a poor neighborhood. Some of these areas of the Bronx were middle to upper class. We've had discussions about why the Bronx has so few upper class residents. Well a lot of them were pushed out by things like the Cross Bronx Expressway. Much of the South Bronx was relatively poor even when it was white, especially if we exclude the Grand Concourse, which was built for middle class families back in the day. With that said, the white flight started in the South Bronx and then moved north, so the South Bronx really endured much of the arson for longer as a result. When the whites fled they usually fled further north or left the Bronx entirely. White flight hit further north later on though, which likely spared the amount of arson that occurred and its duration.

University Heights was mainly middle class white families that would eventually flee as whites did in the South Bronx.
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