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Old 07-20-2018, 03:33 PM
 
Location: In the heights
20,218 posts, read 21,814,625 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
like i said , most people will do whatever it takes for the most part to live on what they have . the same topic comes up in the retirement section and about how seniors are living on small social security checks . they just do , they make it work .

we have retirees living on small ss checks and retirees living on 6 figure incomes .
We’re agreed on all this. I was only remarking on the comment about living alone rather than with roommates because living with roommates is certainly something that has been happening in NYC across a large socioeconomic spectrum and minimum wage workers are definitely doing that in large numbers. Not saying they shouldn’t, not saying it’s a right, not even saying it’s a bad thing since that can involve things like someone to be in to receive a delivery, shared meals, oral, etc.—just saying it’s an already done thing.
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Old 07-20-2018, 03:36 PM
 
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absolutely , roommates and cost sharing have been going on forever . my point was that is one of the ways low wage earners survive when they live in an expensive city like nyc . .
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Old 07-20-2018, 04:20 PM
 
Location: In the heights
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Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
absolutely , roommates and cost sharing have been going on forever . my point was that is one of the ways low wage earners survive when they live in an expensive city like nyc . .
True, though I think rent per scale footage has scaled much much faster than wages (including this new minimum wage) in recent years even far out from employment centers, so I really do think people should, if they’re only qualified for minimum wage jobs, to consider a host of other US cities or outside of the US entirely.
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Old 07-20-2018, 04:33 PM
 
18,338 posts, read 11,738,895 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
True, though I think rent per scale footage has scaled much much faster than wages (including this new minimum wage) in recent years even far out from employment centers, so I really do think people should, if they’re only qualified for minimum wage jobs, to consider a host of other US cities or outside of the US entirely.
What many of you seem to be forgetting is that many, many, *MANY* persons for ages have moonlighted/hand more than one source of employment to make ends meet. This includes paying rent and other housing costs.


Some of it was on the books, a good bit of it off; but never the less there you are. If people didn't *hustle* they'd be out on the streets.


You see this in all those "affordable" housing lottery threads were people moan about the process getting all up in their business. Simply put developer/NYC want to know where their money is coming from, and how rent is being paid when on paper the sums don't make sense. The amounts in their bank accounts don't add up either with various miscellaneous deposits.


Fact these people are paying their current rent is all very well, but developers and city want to know how and where money is coming from, that is what ticks some people off. If simply allowed to get on with the process (without all the deep investigation into financials), these people likely could still make their rent just as they have been doing.


Long story short there is no end of people doing side jobs or whatever, and not all of them are MW employees.
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Old 07-20-2018, 04:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
there are ways . you can live golden girl style if need be . minimum wage jobs were not supposed to support adults once their careers were started , nor is it written everyone is supposed to live alone and not roommate style if needed
Or some people live with relatives. Some of the retirees in my family lived with siblings.
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Old 07-20-2018, 04:57 PM
 
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yep ,whatever it takes people will do or else they end up homeless
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Old 07-20-2018, 06:09 PM
 
Location: In the heights
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
What many of you seem to be forgetting is that many, many, *MANY* persons for ages have moonlighted/hand more than one source of employment to make ends meet. This includes paying rent and other housing costs.


Some of it was on the books, a good bit of it off; but never the less there you are. If people didn't *hustle* they'd be out on the streets.


You see this in all those "affordable" housing lottery threads were people moan about the process getting all up in their business. Simply put developer/NYC want to know where their money is coming from, and how rent is being paid when on paper the sums don't make sense. The amounts in their bank accounts don't add up either with various miscellaneous deposits.


Fact these people are paying their current rent is all very well, but developers and city want to know how and where money is coming from, that is what ticks some people off. If simply allowed to get on with the process (without all the deep investigation into financials), these people likely could still make their rent just as they have been doing.


Long story short there is no end of people doing side jobs or whatever, and not all of them are MW employees.
Not forgetting that at all as I've lived with that for years in the fairly recent past (I've only been here for a decade) and have lived with people who have done so.

I stand by the idea that NYC is a poor proposition for many people who are here now even with the list of things that mathjak has listed about its favorable bits. The scaling of cost of living, especially in regards to rent for most people, is simply not a great trade-off with those benefits. If you have a very specific goal in mind where NYC is one of the main bulkheads of the industry, then sure, it can make a lot of sense. Otherwise, there are a lot of people I've met who I think can get most of what they want in several other cities without the major cost trade-off here. I would not have said this ten or even five years ago, but I very much believe it now.
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Old 07-20-2018, 06:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Not forgetting that at all as I've lived with that for years in the fairly recent past (I've only been here for a decade) and have lived with people who have done so.

I stand by the idea that NYC is a poor proposition for many people who are here now even with the list of things that mathjak has listed about its favorable bits. The scaling of cost of living, especially in regards to rent for most people, is simply not a great trade-off with those benefits. If you have a very specific goal in mind where NYC is one of the main bulkheads of the industry, then sure, it can make a lot of sense. Otherwise, there are a lot of people I've met who I think can get most of what they want in several other cities without the major cost trade-off here. I would not have said this ten or even five years ago, but I very much believe it now.

You are forgetting few if any other areas have the largesse both official and otherwise that NYC/NYS offers the "poor".


People can and do live very well off the rubbish and whatever from New Yorkers. Transplants are happy with their squat living arrangements (that can include two, three or more people) and "dumpster diving" through Trader Joe's or other rubbish for food or whatever. Ditto for going through garbage for anything valuable that is being thrown away such as furniture, clothing, electronics, etc....


You also left out that for many government programs New York's high cost of living mean certain checks are larger (Social Security comes to mind), because they take this into account.


The "poor" in NYC are being pushed into luxury apartment buildings at heavily discounted rents. Homeless and others are put into grand hotels and or given vouchers.


Long story short if you are going to be lower middle class to dirt poor, NYC isn't such a bad place to be, hence all those that keep coming here, and or remain without a pot to **** in or often a window to throw it out.
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Old 07-20-2018, 06:39 PM
 
Location: In the heights
20,218 posts, read 21,814,625 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
You are forgetting few if any other areas have the largesse both official and otherwise that NYC/NYS offers the "poor".


People can and do live very well off the rubbish and whatever from New Yorkers. Transplants are happy with their squat living arrangements (that can include two, three or more people) and "dumpster diving" through Trader Joe's or other rubbish for food or whatever. Ditto for going through garbage for anything valuable that is being thrown away such as furniture, clothing, electronics, etc....


You also left out that for many government programs New York's high cost of living mean certain checks are larger (Social Security comes to mind), because they take this into account. The benefits sure as ****, and there is a lot of surety in ****s, did not scale with the rise of cost of living especially in regards to rent.

The "poor" in NYC are being pushed into luxury apartment buildings at heavily discounted rents. Homeless and others are put into grand hotels and or given vouchers.


Long story short if you are going to be lower middle class to dirt poor, NYC isn't such a bad place to be, hence all those that keep coming here, and or remain without a pot to **** in or often a window to throw it out.
Not forgetting this--mathjak listed many of these. I am saying with these and more (though aside from a guaranteed in on basement rate housing), it is a bad calculation for transplants and natives without a sizable supportive family/friends network for the last few years.

Dumpster diving / "freeganism" is far from a NYC phenomenon nor is garbage collection, salvation army, barter on the Internet, etc.

Keep in mind, I am not saying no one should bother coming here which would be ridiculous. For certain tracks and contexts, this still makes sense. I am saying for those who are mostly on a minimum wage track even with this minimum wage increase, that without a substantial familial or community support network already here, it is a bad calculation to come here now even with the idea of roughing it. A decade ago, it may have made sense, but that is not the case now.

I am several years removed from being under the poverty line, not decades, and not as a temporary fling with slumming it so I very immediately see how the circumstances of the people I worked with have changed here compared to the recent past. You are likely decades or more removed from that and conditions for that sort of thing and rising up some ladder have somewhat changed here especially in the last couple years.

Do not come here at minimum wage employable skills, you likely have better options. That’s all.

Last edited by OyCrumbler; 07-20-2018 at 07:46 PM..
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