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Old 07-18-2018, 07:31 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
4,408 posts, read 2,265,992 times
Reputation: 4870

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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
No, how’d you get that? Most restauranteurs do not own their own property and if they did, they’d only pay the vacancy tax if they didn’t run the restaurant anymore which then doesn’t really make them restauranteurs anymore.

Also, I didn’t say I was in support of a minimum wage increase for everyone. All I said was what its effects are loosely and questioned how strong those effects are.
Who here is talking about the vacancy tax except you? You are obviously obsessed with that dumb idea. (More taxes do not solve problems but create new ones. You should know that by now and we’ve gone through this debate before.)

As for the min wage (which is the topic), are you really going to argue that it does not hurt businesses?
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Old 07-18-2018, 07:32 AM
 
Location: PVB
2,387 posts, read 1,207,731 times
Reputation: 2765
The one major fallacy of these "livable wage" and other generous state mandated benefits in both the USA and elsewhere is that you can't force a company to hire . You can force them to pay whatever you deem "fair", you can make it extremely difficult to fire them, you can mandate very generous benefits, but you can't make them hire anyone. What does it cost NYS to raise the minimum wage? Nothing. What does it cost NYS to mandate paid family leave? Nothing. If a business closes blame the rent, say it was poorly run, it couldn't keep up with the times, etc, etc.
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Old 07-18-2018, 07:39 AM
 
23,247 posts, read 16,049,776 times
Reputation: 8529
So are you guys arguing there should be NO minimum wage?

Why would people work if they are not going to get paid?

Are you advocating a return to slavery?
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Old 07-18-2018, 07:49 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
4,408 posts, read 2,265,992 times
Reputation: 4870
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
So are you guys arguing there should be NO minimum wage?

Why would people work if they are not going to get paid?

Are you advocating a return to slavery?
That’s quite a ridiculous leap from having no min wage to slavery you are trying to make there. You do realize that before there was even such a thing as min wage, there was nothing resembling slavery, right? It was called a free market, and for the longest time, it worked really well.
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Old 07-18-2018, 07:49 AM
 
Location: In the heights
20,111 posts, read 21,722,272 times
Reputation: 10216
Quote:
Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
Who here is talking about the vacancy tax except you? You are obviously obsessed with that dumb idea. (More taxes do not solve problems but create new ones. You should know that by now and we’ve gone through this debate before.)

As for the min wage (which is the topic), are you really going to argue that it does not hurt businesses?
Yes, I am talking about a vacancy tax. I’m saying that because if you bothered to actually read the source that the post was quoting, you’ll see that rising rent and healthcare costs were pointed to as reasons for the closure and not just the minimum wage. Those, and changing tastes of consumers, are together also reasons for the closure aside from just minimum wage increase. If the point was to help businesses thrive, then it does make sense to look at how strong the multiple effects are. We’ve gone through this debate before and unfortunately you don’t have a real counter argument aside from an incredibly broad and stupid argument that more taxes simply do not solve problems period. While I agree overtaxation can be an issue, that’s not the same as just a dumb general rule where all taxes are a greater problem than a solution. It matters what taxes are being implemented and how they are implemented and what the revenue of that tax is spent on.

Last edited by OyCrumbler; 07-18-2018 at 07:57 AM..
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Old 07-18-2018, 07:50 AM
 
Location: New York, NY
7,548 posts, read 2,685,297 times
Reputation: 2819
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
So are you guys arguing there should be NO minimum wage?

Why would people work if they are not going to get paid?

Are you advocating a return to slavery?
Don't be ridiculous. Paying someone $15 to flip burgers is absurd. The problem lies with elected officials gutting and outsourcing good paying jobs for ones that weren't meant to be good paying jobs.
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Old 07-18-2018, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
3,231 posts, read 3,473,865 times
Reputation: 2850
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
So are you guys arguing there should be NO minimum wage?

Why would people work if they are not going to get paid?
They won't, and the companies would be forced to pay whatever salary needed to attract certain professionals. Computer engineers don't get paid minimum wage and there are no laws or unions on the books mandating their high compensation and benefits. They simply won't work for less since there are a lot more jobs for them than people who are qualified to do those jobs. Supply and demand, just like with everything else.

Quote:
Are you advocating a return to slavery?
There are plenty of countries that do not have minimum wage laws on the books. I think even Sweden, the darling of the Democrats, doesn't officially have a minimum wage law. I think Austria is another one. Remember, you do not have to work for the company that treats and pays their employees like sh*t. Its a free choice. Slavery is compulsory, you can't refuse.
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Old 07-18-2018, 07:55 AM
 
Location: In the heights
20,111 posts, read 21,722,272 times
Reputation: 10216
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
So are you guys arguing there should be NO minimum wage?

Why would people work if they are not going to get paid?

Are you advocating a return to slavery?
Not necessarily no minimum wage nor a return to slavery or even an expansion of wage slavery. The question is if raising if to 15 dollars an hour across the board ultimately makes sense. However, there are certainly countries that get by fine without minimum wage though in the context of this country, there are potentially other issues since our social welfare network is different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
That’s quite a ridiculous leap from having no min wage to slavery you are trying to make there. You do realize that before there was even such a thing as min wage, there was nothing resembling slavery, right? It was called a free market, and for the longest time, it worked really well.
There was actually only a few decades in US history between the end of slavery and the start of minimum wage and those weren’t necessarily the best years of economic growth or quality of life in the US. Though since it’s only one component of the picture, it’s hard to single out its effects alone.
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Old 07-18-2018, 07:58 AM
 
64,532 posts, read 66,100,109 times
Reputation: 42983
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
So are you guys arguing there should be NO minimum wage?

Why would people work if they are not going to get paid?

Are you advocating a return to slavery?
we just got back from bermuda . it is one of the most costliest places on the planet to live .they have no min wage laws .
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Old 07-18-2018, 07:58 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
4,408 posts, read 2,265,992 times
Reputation: 4870
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Yes, I am talking about a vacancy tax. I’m saying that because if you bothered to actually read the source that the post was quoting, you’ll see that rising rent and healthcare costs were pointed to as reasons for the closure and not just the minimum wage. Those, and changing tastes of consumers, are together also reasons for the closure aside from just minimum wage increase. If the point was to help businesses thrive, then it does make sense to look at how strong the multiple effects are. We’ve gone through this debate before and unfortunately you don’t have a real counter argument aside from an incredibly broad and stupid argument that more taxes simply do not solve problems period. While I agree overtaxation can be an issue, that’s not the same as just a dumb general rule. It matters what taxes are being implemented and how they are implemented and what the revenue of that tax is spent on.
Rising rents and healthcare costs are factors but don’t try to deny that an added cost of the min wage is not a factor. Anything that adds to the cost of doing business is a factor in dooming a business. And as for your dumb vacancy tax idea, it is another band aid Leftist idea that will not attack the root cause of the problem, which is high cost of living/high taxes but just make matters worse.

If you put a tax on the landlord, they’d just pass that added cost onto their tenants, be it residential or commercial. Then the businesses will then be forced to pass it along to their customers and then because of high prices, they either buy online or buy less, which then hurts the local businesses. It then becomes a vicious cycle.

You Leftists don’t think any more than one step ahead. Everything you guys propose is for the feel good momentary effects and votes. Tax the rich! Free healthcare, free housing, free money for the poor!
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