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Old 07-23-2018, 12:23 PM
 
23,248 posts, read 16,056,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakeJones View Post
cancel project immediately

thanks.
It's not getting canceled. Thankfully NYC has a wonderful history of ignoring NIMBY's. The city would be a farms and woods if they actually listened to the public.

Thankfully people like Hylan, Moses, Bloomberg, and Cuomo ignored people.
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Old 07-23-2018, 12:30 PM
 
18,242 posts, read 11,653,926 times
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Nearly $12 billion and counting for LIRR Eastside Access


Nearly $5 billion for SAS (phase I)


Predicted $6 billion for SAS (phase II)


With those numbers you can forget any hope of a SAS Phase III and or IV unless or until the MTA gets a handle on costs.


Say what you like but it isn't fair nor wise to expect federal government to come though repeatedly with large sums for these local transit issues. Especially when the MTA has show little incentive or will to reign in costs especially union no show jobs.


NYT did a great piece on how dozens of workers on the LIRR Eastside Access project couldn't be accounted for, yet they all got paid. MTA's response was something you'd hear from wolves about being in hot pursuit of those missing chickens.
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Old 07-23-2018, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
3,231 posts, read 3,475,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Part of the rationale was that there were some existing tunnels and to serve as an earlier upstream reliever for the crowded Lexington Ave Line as well as the Metro-North trains. The other is because of the operations aspect of it where you can do the second phase as a continuation of the current Q line run, but if you did phase 3 first then you'd have built a pretty stumpy line service for a separate train service, and due to it being built with just two tracks rather than a local/express four track, that means you'd have to split that max service frequency between the two. I think part of the hope was that before phase 3 and 4 are up, or concurrently, something would be figured out with the 63rd street tunnel and service in Queens so that some Queens service could take up the service "slack" there would be for trains south of 63rd street.
Realistically Phase 3 and 4 need to be combined into one phase. But with current MTA, both phases together would cost $100 billion.. and aint nobody funding that boondoggle.

If nothing is done with how MTA is run, I believe a subway line on Mars will open before Phase 4 is completed.
If I was the federal government, I wouldn't give a dime to the MTA until they can get their construction costs inline with other first world cities.
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Old 07-23-2018, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Bronx
14,780 posts, read 17,404,166 times
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It looks like it takes a decade the complete 1 phase. It took nearly a decade to complete phase 1 and another decade to complete phase 2. It will probably take another decade to complete phase 3 and another to complete phase 4. This project for the 2nd avenue subway looks like a 40 year project.
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Old 07-23-2018, 12:37 PM
 
18,242 posts, read 11,653,926 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
It's not getting canceled. Thankfully NYC has a wonderful history of ignoring NIMBY's. The city would be a farms and woods if they actually listened to the public.

Thankfully people like Hylan, Moses, Bloomberg, and Cuomo ignored people.

And look what happened to them.....


Moses finally got his comeuppance after being dealt a mortal blow by residents of Greenwich/West Village against his massive lower Manhattan highway scheme. Once that blood was drawn Mr. Bossy Boots had a mortal wound from which he never recovered.


The Mouth of Albany (Andrew Cuomo) is good about public works projects in theory. Problems come when you start to examine who is going to pay for the things and or how they will be funded. But he likes to see his name slapped onto things (nearly or all the new SAS subway stations have plaques prominently pointing out "Andrew Cuomo - Governor of New York.....". That and renaming the Tappen Zee bridge after the father.


Mr. Hylan, well one cannot hate on the guy too much; Hylan Blvd is named after him, but never the less was a piece of work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Francis_Hylan
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Old 07-23-2018, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
3,231 posts, read 3,475,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxguyanese View Post
It looks like it takes a decade the complete 1 phase. It took nearly a decade to complete phase 1 and another decade to complete phase 2. It will probably take another decade to complete phase 3 and another to complete phase 4. This project for the 2nd avenue subway looks like a 40 year project.
Not even close. Phase 1 and 2 are relatively easy and already had tunnel work done before. Phase 1 should've been a 3 year job. Phases 3 and 4 are much more complex.
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Old 07-23-2018, 12:41 PM
 
Location: In the heights
20,113 posts, read 21,729,745 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gantz View Post
Realistically Phase 3 and 4 need to be combined into one phase. But with current MTA, both phases together would cost $100 billion.. and aint nobody funding that boondoggle.

If nothing is done with how MTA is run, I believe a subway line on Mars will open before Phase 4 is completed.
If I was the federal government, I wouldn't give a dime to the MTA until they can get their construction costs inline with other first world cities.
I agree--the way MTA does capital construction seems to rife with corruption and inefficiency and that has been well-documented. Additionally, it's been dogged with poor planning.

Agreed that phase 3 and 4 needs to be done as a single segment--would argue that it should be done so along with a connection to the Montague Street Tunnel as a crossing to get to yards among other things.

Phase 1 and 2 should have most definitely been done as a single phase.

It is simply ridiculous to assemble all the machinery and all the people and organizations for these spurts, dispel them only to re-organize all of this shortly after. It is insanely bad planning. Another piece of insane planning was to build the giant second terminal for LIRR under Grand Central. The massive mezzanines were supposedly a large driver for the cost of SAS phase 1--now consider how bad it is for LIRR trains to go into an even deeper and much larger cavern underneath the Metro-North Grand Central tracks and then on top of that having to build a massive interlocking to shuffle all those trains around. It's insanely stupid, and even when done, operationally convoluted and inefficient. It should have been a tunnel bore down to the financial district with limited stops and then over the East River under Atlantic Avenue (also has an existing unused tunnel) to line into the Atlantic Terminal LIRR tracks. This would have been far more useful to everybody, operationally much more efficient, and likely would have ended up cheaper and without pouring scads of people into the overcrowded 7 and Lexington Avenue Line Grand Central subway stops.

Last edited by OyCrumbler; 07-23-2018 at 01:02 PM..
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Old 07-23-2018, 01:04 PM
 
Location: New York City
7,125 posts, read 5,496,520 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
It's not getting canceled. Thankfully NYC has a wonderful history of ignoring NIMBY's. The city would be a farms and woods if they actually listened to the public.

Thankfully people like Hylan, Moses, Bloomberg, and Cuomo ignored people.
you've got it twisted, I'm a YIMBY

but I'm also a "don't blow 20 billion / 15 years on 3 stations"-Y
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Old 07-23-2018, 01:16 PM
 
23,248 posts, read 16,056,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakeJones View Post
you've got it twisted, I'm a YIMBY

but I'm also a "don't blow 20 billion / 15 years on 3 stations"-Y
It's pretty easy to construction metro lines for cheaper. here in Spain they use tunnel boring machines to build the tunnels and the stations themselves (and the platforms are just build to the wide) and the way out of course is built separately).

NYC build huge station length mezzanines, and that is what is costing so much money. If the MTA wants to save money, don't build these mezzanines.

Many IRT stations like 96th Street, 72nd Street Street (1, 2, 3), 86th Street (4,5, 6) don't have mezzanines and those are express stations. Local IRT stations of course don't have them.

It's fairly easy to cut costs from the Second Avenue Subway.
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Old 07-23-2018, 01:19 PM
 
3,333 posts, read 3,281,941 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
I donít really care what someone anonymous person on the internet says is the probability of anything to be frank. Now go continue your game of mental masturbation, abs perhaps your literal one. Youíre just cranky due to no release. Find a booth in a porn store.

Either that or you have serious mental health issues to get uncontrollably angry over whenever the MTA builds the Second Avenue Subway. Calling me names wonít make me agree with you and it wonít make your prediction fact as that will be determined by politicians and the politics of the time.
You really are a buffoon. You are an intellectual fraud.


What exactly is your argument? Your arguments are either flat out lies or overly broad generalizations. There's no substance. It seems that you argue for the sake or arguing.

You're a complete fraud. Do you even know when the MTA expects revenue service to begin for Phase 2? If you did, theres no way you'd be spewing complete garbage regarding phase 3 and 4.
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