U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
 
Old 07-28-2018, 01:41 PM
 
Location: New York, NY
7,548 posts, read 2,685,297 times
Reputation: 2819

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by l1995 View Post
But do you agree that OP's idea of the UES or even Yorkville not being gentrified is flawed?
I said it earlier. Yorkville was never really a poor area, so yes her logic is flawed, just like it is flawed with other neighborhoods. She calls a neighborhood like Riverdale "cheap". She sees reasonable prices for the co-ops but doesn't realize that the maintenance there is as high as it is in Manhattan. The area is geared toward upper middle class people, not working class people. Not by a long shot. She needs to get out more. She may be a native New Yorker but I definitely know the entire city better than her, since I have lived in just about every borough, traveling extensively and regularly throughout the City and not just for "a" trip here or there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speediestevie View Post
Yorkville may appear middle class, in comparison to tony UES between 5th ave and Lex, due to many old timers who make up this residential community. However - try finding a spot to eat for less than 10$ , that actually has seating and no servers hovering over you ..Think Queens where you may get a filling meal for cheap. IMO Yorkville is moving away from its middle class status. That's why places like Maison Kaiser and PQR (pizzeria on 2nd with 8$ slices) move in, and middle class places like Friendly's stay out.
Hence why I said solidly middle to UPPER middle. I'm not the one that said that area was just middle class. The OP said that.
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-28-2018, 06:26 PM
 
18,241 posts, read 11,645,412 times
Reputation: 11847
Ok, am going to tell you people for the (hopefully) last time; there is the rich heartland of Upper East Side mainly west of Third, then there is Yorkville (east of it). Incomes on average vary greatly by where one lives in the area.


There are still plenty of low to moderate income households in Yorkville. Incomes <60k per year) on average. Who do you think are living in all those old RC and or RS apartments?


A good portion of Yorkville residents have been living in their homes/apartments for decades, having moved in before say 1995, and in many cases pre-1980). The area was quite different back then and rents weren't off the wall.


This especially applies to Yorkville from 86th to 96th streets, which was once considered "no man's land" for many seeking an apartment.


Lack of subway access and other reasons left Yorkville largely frozen in time. That is now slowly changing with arrival of SAS and rising real estate prices, but still.


It is obvious some of you have never set foot in Yorkville and or spent much time there on a day to day basis. Otherwise you'd know the place is still full of moderate income "folk" (to use a word near and dear to some of you).


One knows doormen/building workers, supermarket cashiers and others who earn $50k or less that work within a few blocks of their home in Yorkville.


None of this touches the often secretive but still there supportive housing and other such schemes scattered about Yorkville. There are also a few public housing estates (at least one for seniors at 71st and First).


https://statisticalatlas.com/neighbo...usehold-Income


https://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/20/r...manhattan.html




Of course many living in UES today that are in RC or RS apartments would never qualify for them today given the 40x rule, background/court record searches and whatever other hoops landlords put tenants through. But those who are in and can manage to pay their (below market) rent, aren't going anywhere except in a coffin.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-28-2018, 07:07 PM
 
3,502 posts, read 1,792,553 times
Reputation: 1630
Quote:
Originally Posted by pierrepont7731 View Post
I said it earlier. Yorkville was never really a poor area, so yes her logic is flawed, just like it is flawed with other neighborhoods. She calls a neighborhood like Riverdale "cheap". She sees reasonable prices for the co-ops but doesn't realize that the maintenance there is as high as it is in Manhattan. The area is geared toward upper middle class people, not working class people. Not by a long shot. She needs to get out more. She may be a native New Yorker but I definitely know the entire city better than her, since I have lived in just about every borough, traveling extensively and regularly throughout the City and not just for "a" trip here or there.
.
Riverdale apartments (not houses) are quite affordable.
Why? Probably because it's a bit of a shlep to midtown.

But why all the venom directed at me?: "needs to get out more", etc?
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-28-2018, 07:10 PM
 
3,502 posts, read 1,792,553 times
Reputation: 1630
What I am getting at is that Yorkville is one of the few ungentrified - and by that I mean unchanged - neighborhoods in Manhattan.
It was always an middle to upper middle class neighborhood, and it still is.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-28-2018, 07:35 PM
 
Location: New York, NY
7,548 posts, read 2,685,297 times
Reputation: 2819
Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
Ok, am going to tell you people for the (hopefully) last time; there is the rich heartland of Upper East Side mainly west of Third, then there is Yorkville (east of it). Incomes on average vary greatly by where one lives in the area.


There are still plenty of low to moderate income households in Yorkville. Incomes <60k per year) on average. Who do you think are living in all those old RC and or RS apartments?


A good portion of Yorkville residents have been living in their homes/apartments for decades, having moved in before say 1995, and in many cases pre-1980). The area was quite different back then and rents weren't off the wall.


This especially applies to Yorkville from 86th to 96th streets, which was once considered "no man's land" for many seeking an apartment.


Lack of subway access and other reasons left Yorkville largely frozen in time. That is now slowly changing with arrival of SAS and rising real estate prices, but still.


It is obvious some of you have never set foot in Yorkville and or spent much time there on a day to day basis. Otherwise you'd know the place is still full of moderate income "folk" (to use a word near and dear to some of you).


One knows doormen/building workers, supermarket cashiers and others who earn $50k or less that work within a few blocks of their home in Yorkville.


None of this touches the often secretive but still there supportive housing and other such schemes scattered about Yorkville. There are also a few public housing estates (at least one for seniors at 71st and First).


https://statisticalatlas.com/neighbo...usehold-Income


https://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/20/r...manhattan.html




Of course many living in UES today that are in RC or RS apartments would never qualify for them today given the 40x rule, background/court record searches and whatever other hoops landlords put tenants through. But those who are in and can manage to pay their (below market) rent, aren't going anywhere except in a coffin.
So what? You act as if everyone living in Yorkville lives in subsidized apartments. So your circle of people live in such conditions. I'm in Yorkville regularly (every week in fact) and as I said I frequent a doorman building in the 70s just off of York. I've been frequenting the area for well over a decade well before the SAS came along and quite frankly I don't agree with your assessment that all of the monied people are west of Lex. There are plenty of people living in Yorkville that are upper middle class. They are NOT scrapping by or going dumpster diving. I know because I know people that live there and they earn good money. In other words, the picture you're painting of the area being mainly people of limited means just isn't true. They are the exception not the rule. Besides most of these people are croaking anyway. Plenty of transplants moving to Yorkville and they need to earn a good salary to do so these days. I know of a French guy and two Asian families living there. None of them are natives to the area. Two of them are consultants and the other is a stay at home mother with a husband that has his own business. Not millionaires but not exactly scrapping by that's for sure. Two of them OWN their apartment and the other rents and it isn't rent stabilized either.

Last edited by pierrepont7731; 07-28-2018 at 07:54 PM..
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-28-2018, 07:37 PM
 
18,241 posts, read 11,645,412 times
Reputation: 11847
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoshanarose View Post
What I am getting at is that Yorkville is one of the few ungentrified - and by that I mean unchanged - neighborhoods in Manhattan.
It was always an middle to upper middle class neighborhood, and it still is.


Yes, that is true, for reasons one has mentioned many times both in this thread and elsewhere.


That however is now changing thanks to arrival of SAS and the continued RE boom in Manhattan/NYC.


All those remaining low rise walk-ups and or tenement buildings on UES (including Yorkville) major cross streets or the avenues are now prime targets for redevelopment. That is if they haven't been snapped up already.


Even on side streets, old brownstones/townhouses or walk-ups are being snapped up, torn down and property redeveloped.


Case in point: https://streeteasy.com/building/318-...treet-new_York


318 East 81st is a new building that replaces two old walk-ups on same site. A group of attorney investors funded the project. The Besen Group


https://newyorkyimby.com/2015/08/six...east-side.html


It once was thought that living mid-block provided some sort of safety as due to zoning what could replace current building wouldn't be much taller than was already there; that no longer seems to be the case.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-28-2018, 07:43 PM
 
Location: New York, NY
7,548 posts, read 2,685,297 times
Reputation: 2819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoshanarose View Post
Riverdale apartments (not houses) are quite affordable.
Why? Probably because it's a bit of a shlep to midtown.

But why all the venom directed at me?: "needs to get out more", etc?
It's because there is a GLUT of co-ops that's why, but as I said, the maintenance is not cheap which is often a turnoff, as they are in Manhattan prices, but not in Manhattan. What I said is true. You can't go to a neighborhood and visit ONCE and then make conclusions based on that. That just doesn't make any sense. You've been wrong about Bay Ridge, Woodlawn, Riverdale and other places. Seems like you've visited each place ONCE and now your mind is set in stone based on what you saw ONE time that you went to each place.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-28-2018, 07:49 PM
 
3,502 posts, read 1,792,553 times
Reputation: 1630
I've been in Riverdale many times because I have friends who live there. I have certainly been in Yorkville countless times.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-28-2018, 07:53 PM
 
11,493 posts, read 5,547,302 times
Reputation: 5949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoshanarose View Post
What I am getting at is that Yorkville is one of the few ungentrified - and by that I mean unchanged - neighborhoods in Manhattan.
It was always an middle to upper middle class neighborhood, and it still is.
If it has gotten way more expensive over the years, wouldn't that mean it has changed?
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-28-2018, 07:53 PM
 
18,241 posts, read 11,645,412 times
Reputation: 11847
Quote:
Originally Posted by pierrepont7731 View Post
So what? You act as if everyone living in Yorkville lives in subsidized apartments. So your circle of people live in such conditions. I'm in Yorkville regularly (every week in fact) and as I said I frequent a doorman building in the 70s just off of York. I've been frequenting the area for well over a decade well before the SAS came along and quite frankly I don't agree with your assessment that all of the monied people are west of Lex. There are plenty of people living in Yorkville that are upper middle class. They are NOT scraping by or going dumpster diving. I know because I know people that live there and they earn good money. In other words, the picture you're painting of the area being mainly people of limited means just isn't true. They are the exception not the rule. Besides most of these people are croaking anyway. Plenty of transplants moving to Yorkville and they need to earn a good salary to do so these days. I know of a French guy and two Asian families living there. None of them are natives to the area. Two of them are consultants and the other is a stay at home mother with a husband that has his own business. Not millionaires but not exactly scrapping by that's for sure. Two of them OWN their apartment and the other rents and it isn't rent stabilized either.

First of all pal, learn to use paragraphs if you want people to read and respond. It helps greatly.


Two , no one said "all" money lives west of Third or even Lexington. Just that (and as linked demographics/stats prove) a large part of Yorkville (and or UES east of Third) is far less well off in terms of household income than anything west of Lexington rolling down to Fifth.


I don't give a eff how many times per week you are "In" the UES; I *LIVE* here, and have done so for >15 years. Thus ought to know far more intimately about things than you and your restaurant, coffee, donuts or whatever else shopping/services that bring you up here.
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top