U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
 
Old 07-28-2018, 07:58 PM
 
Location: New York, NY
7,548 posts, read 2,685,297 times
Reputation: 2819

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by l1995 View Post
If it has gotten way more expensive over the years, wouldn't that mean it has changed?
What Manhattan neighborhood hasn't changed to some degree? There are very few neighborhoods that haven't changed despite locals fighting to keep it the same. Country Club, Woodlawn come to mind as having changed very little, but they are tiny areas. Yorkville has certainly changed. It's too big not to, but there hasn't been MASSIVE changes because it has been a stable area for a long time. Developers look for areas with the most bang for the buck. Since Yorkville was a schlepp to reach because of the lack of the subway, developers weren't so eager to buy there but as BugsyPal said, that is changing.
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-28-2018, 08:12 PM
 
11,493 posts, read 5,547,302 times
Reputation: 5949
Quote:
Originally Posted by pierrepont7731 View Post
What Manhattan neighborhood hasn't changed to some degree? There are very few neighborhoods that haven't changed despite locals fighting to keep it the same. Country Club, Woodlawn come to mind as having changed very little, but they are tiny areas. Yorkville has certainly changed. It's too big not to, but there hasn't been MASSIVE changes because it has been a stable area for a long time. Developers look for areas with the most bang for the buck. Since Yorkville was a schlepp to reach because of the lack of the subway, developers weren't so eager to buy there but as BugsyPal said, that is changing.
My point is that calling a neighborhood like Yorkville and especially the UES in general "ungentrified" is silly, because that would imply it's either run down, or a very regular mide class kind of place. I don't think that it's "ungentrified" if the end result is the same, if that makes sense.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-28-2018, 08:26 PM
 
18,241 posts, read 11,645,412 times
Reputation: 11847
All this noise comes down to just how one uses word "gentry" and by what one means when saying an area or whatever isn't.






https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentrification




ungentrified




adjective
not gentrified; not middle class
an ungentrified neighbourhood



https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us...h/ungentrified




gen·tri·fy
ˈjentrəˌfī/
verb
past tense: gentrified; past participle: gentrified
  1. renovate and improve (especially a house or district) so that it conforms to middle-class taste.
    • make (someone or their way of life) more refined or polite.





Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-28-2018, 08:44 PM
 
Location: New York, NY
7,548 posts, read 2,685,297 times
Reputation: 2819
Quote:
Originally Posted by l1995 View Post
My point is that calling a neighborhood like Yorkville and especially the UES in general "ungentrified" is silly, because that would imply it's either run down, or a very regular mide class kind of place. I don't think that it's "ungentrified" if the end result is the same, if that makes sense.
The heart of the UES is old money. Yorkville isn't old money, but as I said, it didn't need to be gentrified because it has been a good area for many years. It doesn't need to gentrify.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-28-2018, 09:12 PM
 
18,241 posts, read 11,645,412 times
Reputation: 11847
Quote:
Originally Posted by pierrepont7731 View Post
The heart of the UES is old money. Yorkville isn't old money, but as I said, it didn't need to be gentrified because it has been a good area for many years. It doesn't need to gentrify.


Well that would depend upon your definition of "old money". But East End Avenue and some of the streets off it have "money". https://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/30/r...e-of-mind.html


This being said "old" money or being from it isn't necessarily any sort of guarantee now a days on UES.


Yes, there are families who have such a background, but as happened in past and continues now there are those new arrivals who have *way* more money.


Case in point a beautiful old money mansion/towhouse off Madison Avenue languished on market several years ago before finally selling to a Chinese. Property had not seen much turn over in the one hundred or so years of existence and had been in the same family for decades.


Why sell? When previous owner died her heirs (the children) couldn't afford to keep the place, the property taxes alone were killing.


Yes, there are plenty of "old money" families on UES, as on Sutton Place, Beekman Place, Carnegie Hill and even CPW. Equally yes many have fortunes that vastly exceed anyone posting on this board; but that in no way means funds are unlimited.


Finally while the UES does still have a certain cachet, more and more "money" is choosing "Billionaire's Row" and or other points below 57th street, and certainly below 34th.


They may not be "old money" but people like Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg and many others on the Fortune 500 list chose Chelsea, West Village, Greenwich Village, Tribeca, Soho, and even Financial District over UES.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-28-2018, 09:23 PM
 
Location: New York, NY
7,548 posts, read 2,685,297 times
Reputation: 2819
Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
Well that would depend upon your definition of "old money". But East End Avenue and some of the streets off it have "money". https://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/30/r...e-of-mind.html


This being said "old" money or being from it isn't necessarily any sort of guarantee now a days on UES.


Yes, there are families who have such a background, but as happened in past and continues now there are those new arrivals who have *way* more money.


Case in point a beautiful old money mansion/towhouse off Madison Avenue languished on market several years ago before finally selling to a Chinese. Property had not seen much turn over in the one hundred or so years of existence and had been in the same family for decades.


Why sell? When previous owner died her heirs (the children) couldn't afford to keep the place, the property taxes alone were killing.


Yes, there are plenty of "old money" families on UES, as on Sutton Place, Beekman Place, Carnegie Hill and even CPW. Equally yes many have fortunes that vastly exceed anyone posting on this board; but that in no way means funds are unlimited.


Finally while the UES does still have a certain cachet, more and more "money" is choosing "Billionaire's Row" and or other points below 57th street, and certainly below 34th.


They may not be "old money" but people like Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg and many others on the Fortune 500 list chose Chelsea, West Village, Greenwich Village, Tribeca, Soho, and even Financial District over UES.
The UES has lost some of its cachet if you will. TriBeCa, SoHo are the new hip spots with "new" money. Sutton Place, etc to me is like its own little area. Definitely some living there with money.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-28-2018, 09:35 PM
 
18,241 posts, read 11,645,412 times
Reputation: 11847
Quote:
Originally Posted by pierrepont7731 View Post
The UES has lost some of its cachet if you will. TriBeCa, SoHo are the new hip spots with "new" money. Sutton Place, etc to me is like its own little area. Definitely some living there with money.
While never will totally become irrelevant, the UES certainly has and will continue to fall out of favor as younger generations "with money" want something different than those white glove restricted co-op buildings.


We left out that other area big with "new money" Gramercy Park.


Was down that way for a meeting last week and walked from Park Avenue South over to Third for the bus uptown and forgotten how nice area around the park/Irving Place is; can see how money has rediscovered the place.


Back on topic; between tons of new luxury condo development, and or move into brownstones/townhouses below 34th street, the old money world of UES co-ops are getting killed.


https://therealdeal.com/issues_artic...-op-conundrum/


People have or are also buying up those old brownstones/townhouses in Yorkville and converting them back into single family homes. So they get the best of both worlds; access to what UES offers, but not with the issues that come with trying to get into a white glove co-op. Plus on a square foot basis townhouse will give more space, even if it is spread out on several floors.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-29-2018, 12:44 AM
 
107 posts, read 40,888 times
Reputation: 86
I see Yorkville as a more residential neighborhood than many areas below 57th st. It’s more family oriented , there’s the Central Park where kids can play baseball etc. Newcomers with money are attracted to the area because it’s still known to be popular for lots of moms with strollers
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-29-2018, 06:04 AM
 
Location: Manhattan
20,129 posts, read 26,407,309 times
Reputation: 9021
Quote:
"42nd Street" about "shady ladies from the 80's who are indiscrete",
I always took that line to mean upper class ladies who went downtown to let their hair, and panties, down for the night.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-29-2018, 07:24 AM
 
18,241 posts, read 11,645,412 times
Reputation: 11847
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kefir King View Post
I always took that line to mean upper class ladies who went downtown to let their hair, and panties, down for the night.

Little nifties from the Fifties, innocent and sweet,Sexy ladies from the Eighties who are indiscreet,They're side by side, they're glorified,Where the underworld can meet the eliteNaughty, gawdy, bawdy, sporty, Forty-second Street!https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/42nd_Street_(Manhattan)


Nifties from the Fifties would have been the smartly dressed ladies from Beekman Place, Sutton Place, and the other (still in 1930's) well off parts of the East 50's in Manhattan.


In the 1930's Yorkville east of the Third Avenue El was an entirely different place than today, or even the 1990's. You had all sorts and if the ladies in question weren't prossies per se; it was ladies who still got paid for "services rendered".


Keeping with the 1930's think of difference between Mrs. Stephen Haines, and Crystal Allen.
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top