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Old 09-21-2018, 10:01 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
5,031 posts, read 2,616,624 times
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Hopefully this will galvanize the Asians to start voting. The Asian community for the most part have kept out of local politics but clearly they need to start caring about electing people that speak up for them. The liberal Democrats that dominate this city are not looking out for them.
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Old 09-22-2018, 12:15 AM
 
Location: NYC
12,284 posts, read 8,263,229 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leoliu View Post
All you deblasio haters, please give him a break...he is just trying to help even the gap between the minorities and the majorities...he might be approaching it wrongly, but he is well meant to tackle this persisting problem. stop personal attacking him. if you thought you were all so good and competent, why don't you run for public service positions to rectify what is going wrong?
Is the NBA and NFL diverse? What race is the majority and it is no accident. There might be some prejudice in the system but it is completely performance based. Anybody can join the NFL at the practice squad if you can compete. Nobody gets carried or get free passes in the NFL.

If Deblasio thinks that a free pass for higher education is the solution. He is dead wrong. Mayors are supposed to provide services to the city and not interfere with academic process.

Next thing he'll be forced to do will be to ensure his constituents get accepted at elite colleges now that he's degraded the quality of the students at top NYC high schools.

Socialism absolutely fails because it needs a high cost of support system for the life of the recipients.
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Old 09-22-2018, 04:25 AM
 
3,327 posts, read 3,414,485 times
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I'm only OK with this because the fake NYC progressives are getting a taste of their own medicine.
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Old 09-22-2018, 04:30 AM
 
19,552 posts, read 12,812,190 times
Reputation: 13285
But wait, there's more!


https://nypost.com/2018/09/21/divers...cants-anymore/


Just goes to show no good deed goes unpunished.
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Old 09-22-2018, 05:36 AM
 
3,378 posts, read 3,251,507 times
Reputation: 2433
Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
But wait, there's more!


https://nypost.com/2018/09/21/divers...cants-anymore/


Just goes to show no good deed goes unpunished.



..."Of New Voices’ 600 current students, 52 percent are white, 33 percent are Hispanic, 7 percent are black and 5 percent are Asian"....


I bet you won't see ANY asian parent protesting this...


But I think this is going beyond what a normal brain function could comprehend...maybe dbd and co are gifted with some super ape intelligence that perceives something that regular nyc residents don't understand.
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Old 09-22-2018, 11:07 AM
 
67 posts, read 27,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toby2016 View Post
You obviously did not see my first response to this discussion thread, which is long one and contained video links and hopefully you will take your time to read it.

As I mentioned before, I agree that this method of taking out the shsat is not a good way of diversifying the schools, but instead more resources should be added to the other minority areas to give them more access and encouragement to them to practice and pass the shsat exam to compete for the seats in the elite high schools. This is a much better way of increasing cultural diversity in the elite high schools.

If you have ever walked or passed by Black/Latino neighborhoods, it is not as easily convenient to access tutoring/academic centers because although they are available, there are not as many of them and there is like one in every 10-15 blocks and if they are not as easily accessible, there will be much less resources available to provide extra academic help and/or more encouragement to the students even high academic performers to compete to be at the top of their grades and/or for these schools, especially if there is no one to tell them where they are available unless they luckily happen to live near a tutoring/academic center or if someone they know encourages them to walk long distances to participate in a tutoring/academic center. The Chinese American communities have tutoring/academic centers almost on every block, so it is a lot more convenient for the parents to access them for their children to participate in and it is easier for them to get that encouragement to want to do better and excel academically. I do agree, the quota system to mandate 45% of seats to be given to Latino/Black students is not fair. There should just be an equal or somewhat equal amount of academic centers in all ethnic neighborhoods to give every students an equal chance to practice to pass the exam and compete fairly to for the seats in the elite schools.

Every ethnic group unfortunately get discriminated in the USA including Asians, no question about it.

Statistically speaking yes, on average in the Black and Latino cultures, they do not always have the same values or standards about getting an education like the Asians do. However, it does not mean all Blacks/Latinos are like this. As a matter of fact there are many that want their children to get a good education to get out of the neighborhood they are growing up in that may not be very great to live in, it is just that they do not put all this pressure and stress on them to be perfect in everything and would rather they just do the best they can and would rather be more concerned they are able to maintain a stable passing grade in the B range or so instead of expecting them to be a straight A in everything. As a matter of fact, many Caucasian Americans are like this as well. The Non Asian Americans are more likely to not to want to put more pressure on their children that could possibly make their performance in academics or anything worse and would rather just be concerned they are doing the best they can and they are in the passing grade of B or so, however if they are C or D grades, then they will get concerned and want them to push their grades a little up at least somewhere in B range and getting an A is an extra blessing to them. As for the Asian Americans, it is nice they have high standards of getting an education, but they sometimes overdo it and put too much pressure onto their children to have to be perfect and get a straight A in everything including expecting them to take on college majors that will give them a multimillionaire career and if it is not a straight A or there is some slight imperfections, the parents scold them like they broke the law. Sometimes it causes an opposite effect and their children may become unhappy and start getting lower grades in their classes or even fail and sometimes drop out of college and put themselves in a worse situation, however sometimes if they are lucky, they may just switch to a regular liberal arts major and just get the BA degree to get it over with and they are working a regular job like any regular average Joe.

Also, about the high school students who are getting pregnant early, usually it is the ones that do not care about education. How do you know there are no students in the specialized high schools getting pregnant? There may be lower numbers of them, but it does not mean it does not exist. Are you suggesting that high school pregnancy only exist in Black/Latino cultures? There may be lower numbers of these cases in Asian/Chinese American communities, but there are cases of this happening as well in Asian/Chinese American communities. As with the disruptive students, usually they are also not very serious in taking their education as important.

As I had said, De Blasio is using the wrong approach by getting rid of the shsat exam, but his intended approach is not to let in B/C grade students into these schools. He wants to maintain the straight A grade student population or somewhere along that line and he wants to instead just take a certain number of the highest academic performing students from each middle schools to recruit them into these specialized high schools and it would be up to the students/parents to want to go to these specialized high schools. The A grade and even B grade performing students usually are not disruptive regardless of whatever their race/ethnicity is.

If De Blasio were to successfully go through with his plan to take out the shsat exam in favor of just selecting a certain number of the highest academically performing students from each middle school, not that I agree to taking out the exam, yes the academic standards would be lower, but it would not bring in more disruptive students. As I have said before, students who get A or B grades are not as likely to be disruptive and less likely to get pregnant in high school whether they are in a specialized public high school or regular public high school and the specialized high schools would still be for straight A students coming from middle school anyway and still have to maintain the straight A or somewhere in that range to stay in the specialized high school through graduation or they will be mandated to transfer to a regular high school if their grade starts to drop. The elite high school students may not be as disruptive like other high school students, but there are still some disruptive behaviors sometimes, so you cannot say there are no disruptive students in these elite schools, they just may do it in a different maybe more subtle way. It sounds like you are implying disruptive student behaviors only exist in Latino/Black communities and not in Asian/Chinese communities.

As you said, most of the Asians are not able to get into these specialized High Schools in NYC and that is because the seats are limited. You make it sound like Asians going to lower standard high schools or as you call failing high schools as if this would be a big surprise or new news. This is nothing new and there have always been a lot of them going to a majority Black/Latino student body high school and most of them graduate out just fine and are able to go to college and get a degree. They may not have had the same quality education, but at least they still got an education and most of them are still able to get their high school diplomas and college degrees.

As for the Chinese communities being diverse, exactly what do you mean? Are implying about there are different regional dialectal groups or socioeconomic levels? Because I know you are not talking about race or skin color. The only diversity that exist in Chinese communities are the different educational and socioeconomic, values, personalities, and different dialects from different regions of China, Hong Kong and Taiwan.

Let's face it, most of the Chinese Americans protesting here do not want cultural diversity from Blacks/Latinos. Just watch, if De Blasio changes his mind and says he is going instead start off with bringing in more educational resources like academic tutoring centers to the Latino/Black communities, the Asians are going to have another excuse to come out and protest again and they will start making up claims that they will be watering down the questions on the exams.

Chinese Americans aren't protesting against diversity, but against losing an opportunity to get into specialized high schools. DeBlasio did may BEACON program and Discover Program for low income and poor students, but it ended up being used by poor Asian and poor white kids instead of what he intended it to be for. Asians aren't going to protest if there are academic tutoring center for Latino and Black community. Because everyone could take the SHSAT. Plus it's not like the Asian community protest at every single tiny thing. Protests recently include SHSAT, Peter Liang, and the eviction of the immigrants in Manhattan Chinatown.

There are diversity in the Chinese community in New York City. Bensonhurst are the Cantonese speakers while Sunset Park are the Fuijianese immigrants. Flushing tends to be from northern China so they speak Mandarin more than Cantonese and there are lots of Chinese diaspora from Latin America and Central America who live in Corona by the 7 train. Diversity in the Chinese communities is still pretty diverse. Not to mention the 2nd generation Asian Americans and the immigrants who come recently are really different.

Asians see going to non-specialized high schools and non screened school and not zoned school as shady. DOE has failed to improve these high schools, whether its pouring money into it, or learning to incentivized learning. The spreading of the students who can't get into specialized high schools is a LAST DITCH EFFORT because everything else has failed. So an Asian student who don't even want to go these kind of schools are forced even though he or she is capable of getting into a specialized high school. They would feel like **** because they are forced to go to a school that Latino and African Americans don't even want to go to.

People who put themselves in position to succeed are now being denied an opportunity. Plus they are forced to walk toward a direction that they see people are running away from.

It has been shown that the bottom schools top students still can't hold a candle to the top schools bottom students. Mark Twain Middle School, Dyker Heights Middle School, Christa McAuliffe Middle School average students beat out many top students from middle schools in Brownsville, Bed Stuy, or Canarsie.

And I know that Asian American kids don't get pregnant in specialized high schools because they are busy focus on AP classes, extracurricular activities, online games, SATs. While there are lots of pregnant teenage Latino and African American females whose life is more difficult because its hard taking care of a child and going to school at the same time.

Even in specialized high schools, there are still disruptive students who think it's funny to interrupt the teacher, don't show up for classes, come only on days of the exam, and ask to copy people's homework.

Asian Americans can be an average Joe but in America, below average Asian Americans are screwed because the stereotype of Asian Americans being smart and competent basically shows that if they aren't, then they are defective. And that's pretty messed up because most occupations discriminate against Asians the same way college admissions do. Not to mention reaching the bamboo ceiling at a dead end job. With the specialized high schools, Asians can decide whether they want to stay competitive or not work as hard and live a below average life. At least they should be able to get a taste, and not be denied an opportunity outright. Many Asians think they can lessen the amount of discrimination and racism by earning money and living a comfortable life. To get shat by the mayor and Richard shows that liberal democrats in New York City throw Asians under the bus to gain or retain African American voters and Latino voters. And also the opportunity at having a better life is DENIED to them based on what middle school they go rather than on their effort in the overall education system.

https://hechingerreport.org/opinion-...st-not-a-test/

Just like this Roseann Liu, who basically shame Asian Americans for overdoing education, you are basically telling Asians to hold back to accommodate other racial groups. Education is a path to a better life, but how dare Asians try to improve their standing and in your case "status". Why would Asians want to stay at an impoverished immigrant status when they can become middle class in a generation? Asians aren't dumb to cripple themselves.
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Old 09-22-2018, 11:13 AM
 
202 posts, read 69,351 times
Reputation: 306
Listen, well know at the end of the day any time you hear the word "diversity" please understand it is code for "less whites and Asians." Everytime.

Left wing radical liberals get away with it until kids finally enter the dog eat dog real world, where they fall short. The cream rises. Imagine going for a major surgery and hearing the hospital say today we have a "diverse" doctor for you. Hahahaaa.
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Old 09-22-2018, 12:36 PM
 
541 posts, read 436,190 times
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The existence of standards and tests is not the problem and getting rid of them is not the answer. These tests arent some sham, they are important measures of capability and predictors of future productivity. These idiots of the far left are hurting the communities they imagine they are helping by attacking the standards instead of attacking the causes of failure to meet the standards. But to honestly address the latter requires critical examination of internal flaws within the culture and parenting tactics of the underperforming groups and this simply cant be countenanced by people who see the world through a lense of proletariat victimhood.
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Old 09-22-2018, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Confines of the 101 Precinct
18,920 posts, read 33,840,723 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheArchitect View Post
The existence of standards and tests is not the problem and getting rid of them is not the answer. These tests arent some sham, they are important measures of capability and predictors of future productivity. These idiots of the far left are hurting the communities they imagine they are helping by attacking the standards instead of attacking the causes of failure to meet the standards. But to honestly address the latter requires critical examination of internal flaws within the culture and parenting tactics of the underperforming groups and this simply cant be countenanced by people who see the world through a lense of proletariat victimhood.
In summation: human beings suck

At the end of the day, thats all it really is

Humans created this. And here we are.
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Old 09-22-2018, 02:00 PM
 
187 posts, read 119,786 times
Reputation: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumbleboom View Post
Chinese Americans aren't protesting against diversity, but against losing an opportunity to get into specialized high schools. DeBlasio did may BEACON program and Discover Program for low income and poor students, but it ended up being used by poor Asian and poor white kids instead of what he intended it to be for. Asians aren't going to protest if there are academic tutoring center for Latino and Black community. Because everyone could take the SHSAT. Plus it's not like the Asian community protest at every single tiny thing. Protests recently include SHSAT, Peter Liang, and the eviction of the immigrants in Manhattan Chinatown.

There are diversity in the Chinese community in New York City. Bensonhurst are the Cantonese speakers while Sunset Park are the Fuijianese immigrants. Flushing tends to be from northern China so they speak Mandarin more than Cantonese and there are lots of Chinese diaspora from Latin America and Central America who live in Corona by the 7 train. Diversity in the Chinese communities is still pretty diverse. Not to mention the 2nd generation Asian Americans and the immigrants who come recently are really different.

Asians see going to non-specialized high schools and non screened school and not zoned school as shady. DOE has failed to improve these high schools, whether its pouring money into it, or learning to incentivized learning. The spreading of the students who can't get into specialized high schools is a LAST DITCH EFFORT because everything else has failed. So an Asian student who don't even want to go these kind of schools are forced even though he or she is capable of getting into a specialized high school. They would feel like **** because they are forced to go to a school that Latino and African Americans don't even want to go to.

People who put themselves in position to succeed are now being denied an opportunity. Plus they are forced to walk toward a direction that they see people are running away from.

It has been shown that the bottom schools top students still can't hold a candle to the top schools bottom students. Mark Twain Middle School, Dyker Heights Middle School, Christa McAuliffe Middle School average students beat out many top students from middle schools in Brownsville, Bed Stuy, or Canarsie.

And I know that Asian American kids don't get pregnant in specialized high schools because they are busy focus on AP classes, extracurricular activities, online games, SATs. While there are lots of pregnant teenage Latino and African American females whose life is more difficult because its hard taking care of a child and going to school at the same time.

Even in specialized high schools, there are still disruptive students who think it's funny to interrupt the teacher, don't show up for classes, come only on days of the exam, and ask to copy people's homework.

Asian Americans can be an average Joe but in America, below average Asian Americans are screwed because the stereotype of Asian Americans being smart and competent basically shows that if they aren't, then they are defective. And that's pretty messed up because most occupations discriminate against Asians the same way college admissions do. Not to mention reaching the bamboo ceiling at a dead end job. With the specialized high schools, Asians can decide whether they want to stay competitive or not work as hard and live a below average life. At least they should be able to get a taste, and not be denied an opportunity outright. Many Asians think they can lessen the amount of discrimination and racism by earning money and living a comfortable life. To get shat by the mayor and Richard shows that liberal democrats in New York City throw Asians under the bus to gain or retain African American voters and Latino voters. And also the opportunity at having a better life is DENIED to them based on what middle school they go rather than on their effort in the overall education system.

https://hechingerreport.org/opinion-...st-not-a-test/

Just like this Roseann Liu, who basically shame Asian Americans for overdoing education, you are basically telling Asians to hold back to accommodate other racial groups. Education is a path to a better life, but how dare Asians try to improve their standing and in your case "status". Why would Asians want to stay at an impoverished immigrant status when they can become middle class in a generation? Asians aren't dumb to cripple themselves.

I never said anything about Asians to need to hold back to accommodate other groups. All I am saying is there is should be fair competitions for students in all different neighborhoods to compete for the seats in the public elite high schools. In case you did not even pay attention to some of what I was saying, I do not agree with taking out the SHSAT exam and I am not in favor of the mandated quota system to reserve 45% of the seats for Latino/Black students.
However, the accessibility to tutoring/academic centers is lower in the Latino/Black communities while in the Chinese American communities, they are more accessible and concentrated.

The biggest reason in why there are low numbers Black/Latino students taking the shsat exams to compete to get into these elite high schools is because there are not as many accessible academic tutoring centers in their neighborhoods. There are a lot of high academic achievers in the Black/Latino communities that want to get a very good education, want to participate in extracurricular activities and want to get into these types of high schools, but they may not know where to look for these kinds of tutoring centers to help them advanced academically and/or to prepare for the shsat exams and maybe no one is telling them where they can find one nearest their home, which the nearest one often can be 10-15 blocks away from their home. Although I feel more of their teachers should encourage them to attend these programs and tell them where they are available. If there are limited numbers and inaccessibility to these academic tutoring centers in certain neighborhoods, obviously it will be difficult to give this promotion of encouragement to the students and their parents to excel very well academically and be a straight A student and even the high academic performing students that want to go to these elite high schools and have the potential to get into these kinds of schools will unfortunately not have the access. But yes, partially the parents also have to push their children harder to succeed academically.

If there was more equal access to these kinds of academic programs in the Black/Latino neighborhoods, there would be more of them wanting to compete to get into these kinds of schools, but more teachers should be investing to encourage them to go to tutoring centers to excel academically and attend these kinds of schools. Another option is to maybe add these programs into their public school properties or near the public schools. There would be no need to take away the shsat exams and no need for a quota system.

In the Chinese American communities, they have more accessibility to tutoring academic centers almost on every block and yes because along with the Asian parents' strong values on education, of course it will be a lot easier to provide more promotional encouragements to their students to excel academically. Imagine if their communities faced shortages of academic tutoring centers just like the Latino/Black communities, there would have been low numbers of them going into these elite public high schools.

When it comes down to it, it is all about equal amount of accessibility to academic resource centers in every neighborhood.

Watch the first 7 minutes of this video. This backs up the claim of low numbers of tutoring academic centers, especially low numbers of programs for the gifted/talented in the black neighborhoods, although they mention Bedford Stuyvesant.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om20ELiUSDw


As for your response about the Asian American students, do not generalize that they all want to be in these specialized high schools and want to be a straight A student. A lot of the Asian Americans do not even really care for it and would rather be a normal average American teenage student and would be fine if they are in the B range and getting A would rather just be an extra blessing than it being mandatory. A lot of them are only in these schools pressuring themselves to be a straight A student because they want to satisfy their parents and their parents were the ones who pushed them into all these extracurricular activities, which many did not really care for. Also many of them do not even care about being in a very high paying job career and would rather just be happy with a job they can handle and can still make a living whether they are millionaires or not, but yet a lot of their parents force them to take on college majors that will give them a millionaire salary position. A lot of these students in the specialized high schools do not always turn out to be in millionaire salary positions as their parents and the world would expect them to be in and many turn out to be in regular paying jobs like any other normal person and realized for themselves they would not be happy in very high prestigious positions. Unfortunately, in some cases, some of the students and yes including Asian students who graduated from these specialized high schools are worse off than the ones who graduated from regular high schools and may have dropped out of college. I never said anything about Asians having to dumb down their educational background. If they choose to want to excel academically, that is great and no one is saying they have to, but if they choose to be a regular average Joe, then there is no problem with that. How do you really know for sure there have not been Asian American high school students in these specialized high schools getting pregnant early? Did you ask every single Asian American students in these high schools? Yes, the numbers may be much lower, but it does not mean it does not exist. There are some of them that have boyfriends and girlfriends and yes, some of them are having sex.

I personally think the Asian parents do overdo it with wanting their children to be in very high grade levels and be in prestigious positions. I find nothing wrong with my statement in this. As I just mentioned above and will summarize here is, if the children choose to want to excel to be in a straight A grade range and want to be in the tutoring centers to excel academically and want to go to specialized high schools/colleges and want to be in millionaire careers, then the parents can push them into many extracurricular activities and tutoring programs as long as if the children are happy and if they have the money. But if they would rather just be a regular average person and not interested in being extracurricular activities and are okay with just having a passing academic grade, then I think the parents should just leave them to be because if they try to force them into being a straight A student and to need to be in extra curricular activities and need to be in prestigious educational institutions, not only will they be unhappy, but it often will not provide the results they expected and sometimes can be even worse off than the average person who graduated from a regular high school and from a regular government funded college. Being in extracurricular activities sometimes can interfere with their main academics and homework time, especially if they are learning things in these extracurricular programs that may not match what they are actually learning in school and sometimes they are better off just focusing exclusively on their main academics in schools. If it is a tutoring program where they get help with their homework, then that is different story and likely not going to distract them from their main academics and personally I think the parents should only mandate their children to be in tutoring programs if they are having big trouble with the academic subjects they are learning, but if their grades are passing as long as if they are not failing in any subjects, then I think the tutoring programs should be an option for the children to want to be in or not. However, there are some Asian parents that are putting their children in extracurricular activities because they may not have them time to watch over them while the parents are working, but that is a totally different situation and that is something they would have to explain to the children.

Just because the Asian students go to a regular high school, sometimes many of them are in majority Latino/Black student populations, it does not meant they are going to have a bad career. Yes many of the majority Black/Latino high schools do not always have the greatest academic performance, but there are still a lot of them that do graduate with a diploma and go to college and can manage to get a degree and get a great job and even prestigious jobs. There have always been Asian students in majority black/Latino schools even if they are not the highest academic performing schools, but many of them can still get their high school diploma and can still go to college and get a degree and still get a good job, sometimes they can still get prestigious jobs. You do not need to be in a prestigious college educational environment to get very good jobs. There are many college educated graduates coming from city/state colleges and can still get very good jobs and sometimes are better off than the ones who graduated from prestigious universities. A lot of people who graduated from prestigious universities are often in high debts with student loans and cannot get good jobs because they have very little work experience and often take low paying jobs that high school graduates are doing unless if they have a business degree with some work experience, then those may be well off. However, there are a lot of graduates from city/state colleges that have very little to no loans as the tuition is much cheaper and could easily pay for the tuition, however there are many of them that came from lower income families deeming them eligible for full government financial aid and even if they have to take time looking for a job, they are not in a large student debts and sometimes they are able to get good paying jobs even better than some of the ones who graduated from prestigious universities.

Going to a prestigious high school/college does not mean anything unless you can add work experience as well. You can have as much education as you want whether it be in prestigious or non prestigious educational institutions, but ultimately your character, skills, personality and work experience will determine your chances at getting a successful job. The educational aspect is just a portion to help you get the career. Basically, your ability to get a job you want to be will depend on 20% educational background and 80% work experience/personality/skills.

Last edited by toby2016; 09-22-2018 at 02:24 PM..
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