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Old 09-22-2018, 04:21 PM
 
67 posts, read 27,692 times
Reputation: 179

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Quote:
Originally Posted by toby2016 View Post
I never said anything about Asians to need to hold back to accommodate other groups. All I am saying is there is should be fair competitions for students in all different neighborhoods to compete for the seats in the public elite high schools. In case you did not even pay attention to some of what I was saying, I do not agree with taking out the SHSAT exam and I am not in favor of the mandated quota system to reserve 45% of the seats for Latino/Black students.
However, the accessibility to tutoring/academic centers is lower in the Latino/Black communities while in the Chinese American communities, they are more accessible and concentrated.

The biggest reason in why there are low numbers Black/Latino students taking the shsat exams to compete to get into these elite high schools is because there are not as many accessible academic tutoring centers in their neighborhoods. There are a lot of high academic achievers in the Black/Latino communities that want to get a very good education, want to participate in extracurricular activities and want to get into these types of high schools, but they may not know where to look for these kinds of tutoring centers to help them advanced academically and/or to prepare for the shsat exams and maybe no one is telling them where they can find one nearest their home, which the nearest one often can be 10-15 blocks away from their home. Although I feel more of their teachers should encourage them to attend these programs and tell them where they are available. If there are limited numbers and inaccessibility to these academic tutoring centers in certain neighborhoods, obviously it will be difficult to give this promotion of encouragement to the students and their parents to excel very well academically and be a straight A student and even the high academic performing students that want to go to these elite high schools and have the potential to get into these kinds of schools will unfortunately not have the access. But yes, partially the parents also have to push their children harder to succeed academically.

If there was more equal access to these kinds of academic programs in the Black/Latino neighborhoods, there would be more of them wanting to compete to get into these kinds of schools, but more teachers should be investing to encourage them to go to tutoring centers to excel academically and attend these kinds of schools. Another option is to maybe add these programs into their public school properties or near the public schools. There would be no need to take away the shsat exams and no need for a quota system.

In the Chinese American communities, they have more accessibility to tutoring academic centers almost on every block and yes because along with the Asian parents' strong values on education, of course it will be a lot easier to provide more promotional encouragements to their students to excel academically. Imagine if their communities faced shortages of academic tutoring centers just like the Latino/Black communities, there would have been low numbers of them going into these elite public high schools.

When it comes down to it, it is all about equal amount of accessibility to academic resource centers in every neighborhood.

Watch the first 7 minutes of this video. This backs up the claim of low numbers of tutoring academic centers, especially low numbers of programs for the gifted/talented in the black neighborhoods, although they mention Bedford Stuyvesant.

As for your response about the Asian American students, do not generalize that they all want to be in these specialized high schools and want to be a straight A student. A lot of the Asian Americans do not even really care for it and would rather be a normal average American teenage student and would be fine if they are in the B range and getting A would rather just be an extra blessing than it being mandatory. A lot of them are only in these schools pressuring themselves to be a straight A student because they want to satisfy their parents and their parents were the ones who pushed them into all these extracurricular activities, which many did not really care for. Also many of them do not even care about being in a very high paying job career and would rather just be happy with a job they can handle and can still make a living whether they are millionaires or not, but yet a lot of their parents force them to take on college majors that will give them a millionaire salary position. A lot of these students in the specialized high schools do not always turn out to be in millionaire salary positions as their parents and the world would expect them to be in and many turn out to be in regular paying jobs like any other normal person and realized for themselves they would not be happy in very high prestigious positions. Unfortunately, in some cases, some of the students and yes including Asian students who graduated from these specialized high schools are worse off than the ones who graduated from regular high schools and may have dropped out of college. I never said anything about Asians having to dumb down their educational background. If they choose to want to excel academically, that is great and no one is saying they have to, but if they choose to be a regular average Joe, then there is no problem with that. How do you really know for sure there have not been Asian American high school students in these specialized high schools getting pregnant early? Did you ask every single Asian American students in these high schools? Yes, the numbers may be much lower, but it does not mean it does not exist. There are some of them that have boyfriends and girlfriends and yes, some of them are having sex.

I personally think the Asian parents do overdo it with wanting their children to be in very high grade levels and be in prestigious positions. I find nothing wrong with my statement in this. As I just mentioned above and will summarize here is, if the children choose to want to excel to be in a straight A grade range and want to be in the tutoring centers to excel academically and want to go to specialized high schools/colleges and want to be in millionaire careers, then the parents can push them into many extracurricular activities and tutoring programs as long as if the children are happy and if they have the money. But if they would rather just be a regular average person and not interested in being extracurricular activities and are okay with just having a passing academic grade, then I think the parents should just leave them to be because if they try to force them into being a straight A student and to need to be in extra curricular activities and need to be in prestigious educational institutions, not only will they be unhappy, but it often will not provide the results they expected and sometimes can be even worse off than the average person who graduated from a regular high school and from a regular government funded college. Being in extracurricular activities sometimes can interfere with their main academics and homework time, especially if they are learning things in these extracurricular programs that may not match what they are actually learning in school and sometimes they are better off just focusing exclusively on their main academics in schools. If it is a tutoring program where they get help with their homework, then that is different story and likely not going to distract them from their main academics and personally I think the parents should only mandate their children to be in tutoring programs if they are having big trouble with the academic subjects they are learning, but if their grades are passing as long as if they are not failing in any subjects, then I think the tutoring programs should be an option for the children to want to be in or not. However, there are some Asian parents that are putting their children in extracurricular activities because they may not have them time to watch over them while the parents are working, but that is a totally different situation and that is something they would have to explain to the children.

Just because the Asian students go to a regular high school, sometimes many of them are in majority Latino/Black student populations, it does not meant they are going to have a bad career. Yes many of the majority Black/Latino high schools do not always have the greatest academic performance, but there are still a lot of them that do graduate with a diploma and go to college and can manage to get a degree and get a great job and even prestigious jobs. There have always been Asian students in majority black/Latino schools even if they are not the highest academic performing schools, but many of them can still get their high school diploma and can still go to college and get a degree and still get a good job, sometimes they can still get prestigious jobs. You do not need to be in a prestigious college educational environment to get very good jobs. There are many college educated graduates coming from city/state colleges and can still get very good jobs and sometimes are better off than the ones who graduated from prestigious universities. A lot of people who graduated from prestigious universities are often in high debts with student loans and cannot get good jobs because they have very little work experience and often take low paying jobs that high school graduates are doing unless if they have a business degree with some work experience, then those may be well off. However, there are a lot of graduates from city/state colleges that have very little to no loans as the tuition is much cheaper and could easily pay for the tuition, however there are many of them that came from lower income families deeming them eligible for full government financial aid and even if they have to take time looking for a job, they are not in a large student debts and sometimes they are able to get good paying jobs even better than some of the ones who graduated from prestigious universities.

Going to a prestigious high school/college does not mean anything unless you can add work experience as well. You can have as much education as you want whether it be in prestigious or non prestigious educational institutions, but ultimately your character, skills, personality and work experience will determine your chances at getting a successful job. The educational aspect is just a portion to help you get the career. Basically, your ability to get a job you want to be will depend on 20% educational background and 80% work experience/personality/skills.
You keep saying fair competition, but right now DeBlasio's solution is to give people who don't even want to bother to compete a seat while denying people who want to compete even an opportunity.

On the day of the SHSAT, it a weekend and in the morning as well. If you look at the statistics on which racial group shows up the most, more Asians people show up therefore more Asians get into specialized high schools. I debated the African Americans and Hispanics who complain about not knowing what day the day of the test was, or how they can't be bothered to go the local public library to look for a SHSAT prep book, or even buy SHSAT prep book online. If they can't, they can go to Barnes and Nobles. The reality is that these prep schools or cram schools just the same material as the SHSAT book, they photocopy the pages. There is no big secret formula that these cram schools are giving kids. You exaggerate the amount of tutoring centers in Asian communities. It isn't every other block. DeBlasio literally gave Blacks and Hispanics free SHSAT tutoring aka Discover Program and BEACON. The two groups aren't biting that hard because they don't care that much about it. The government officials are pushing for it harder than the parents are. Also the Latinos and African Americans who do get into specialized high schools are the hard working type. I know that they feel like they are on their own because they are surrounded by Asians and are a token minority. They had a chance to decline enrollment and go to a local zone high school. The hard working type who got in don't bother that much because they would rather be in a competitive environment rather than wanting more Blacks and Hispanics. The only reason why this is a problem is because of an image problem rather than a education problem. Specialized high schools aren't failing, but are doing well, it just makes Latinos and African Americans look bad that there are only a handful of them in specialized high schools.

They want to correct this image, but instead of having everyone try harder to get tutoring. They want to get rid of the obstacle and just get the reward. The SHSAT is the least of their problems. Plus the students make the school prestigious not the other way around. There is no secret formula that teachers are feeding the kids at Bronx Science. The kids came prepared to jump through obstacles, whether it's getting up early in the morning and taking an hour and half commute on the train from Queens to Bronx Science or from Flushing to Stuyvesant. They aren't afraid to carry textbooks and read on the train. Kids in these schools are nerdy, meaning they don't care whether people think they are nerds. In the African American communities, the nerdy kids get bullied because it defies the social norms in that culture.

Another truth is that the Chinese kids don't try very hard in cram school either. No offense to the SHSAT, but the math section is hideously easy until the last 2 questions. So math section is a breeze and the load is already lessen by mainly focusing on the scrambled paragraphs, the logic section, and the reading section. Many Asians see the SHSAT as a pre-SAT since the format is really similar. You make it sound like without the cram schools, many Asians won't get into specialized high schools. I disagree because the SHSAT standard is already low enough that there are Asians who don't prep and still get in.

Not to mention that many Asian kids in cram school already know each other. Since racial groups cluster around the same neighborhoods, the Asian kids knew each other since elementary school, and middle school. So they all get into high school together, whether it's Stuyvesant, Brooklyn Tech, Bronx Science. I don't think any Asian would be okay with being separated from their friends and going to a majority black school where they don't fit in and get fun of for being in the accelerated class.

It also turns out many Asian American kids are bullied more than any other racial groups, and the experience of alienation is particular especially when there are literally one or two Asians in a class or school or town full of white people. This causes a lot of mental anguish, social problems, and self hatred. This is also a motivation to why these kids want to get into specialized high schools, because they like talking about computer games.

And yeah there are Asian kids having relationship and sex in specialized high schools, but it is hidden. I don't ever recall seeing a single mother in a specialized high schools. In a competitive environment, people are more focus on schoolwork than messing around and getting pregnant. The boys are busy talking about handball, basketball, Maplestory, League of Legends than getting girls pregnant. While the girls are swooning over Kpop, makeup, fashion, etc.

You think that Asians can be academically exception, except not in a specialized high schools. You keep thinking it is the parents pushing the kids around, without realizing the kids also have a desire to succeed. If they want to succeed and be in a specialized high school, then having that goal taken away because DeBlasio top 7% from every middle school stymie those hopes. Because everyone in NYC knows, after the specialized high schools, besides NEST+M (screen school), Hunter High School (screen school), BARD early college (also screen school), Eleanor Roosevelt, Townsend Harris (all the way in Queens far from the subway), all the other public high schools are AWFUL.

Asians do work with the best in their situation where the ones who don't get in go to local zoned high school like Fort Hamilton, New Utrecht, John Dewey, Midwood, etc. Guess what? These local high schools are having their standards raised because of an increased in Asian students. But in DeBlasio's new iron rule, the local zoned high schools near Asian neighborhood will become more prestigious than the specialized high schools. And will the NYC mayor agains try to exclude Asians out of their own zoned local high schools?

Try telling an Asian kid he or she is now forced to a black/hispanic majority high school that is considered ****, and that the NYC DOE ran out of solutions to improve these schools, so he or she is forced to go to these failing school because there MUST be a proportional amount of blacks and hispanics in specialized high schools. They will ask about AP classes and when he or she hears that there are fewer or no AP classes, the student will say "Why am I here and not in a school that has AP classes".

You do realize most of the Asians who graduate from specialized high schools go to Buffalo, Stony Brook, Binghamton, Hunter College, Baruch, NYU, St. John's, Brooklyn College, Queens College, and Barnard. Majority city schools, state schools, NYC schools. Some go to UChicago, Northeastern, Boston College, Boston University, TUFTS, and UCLA. And a sliver of them go to Princeton, Harvard, Cornell, Columbia, MIT, and Stanford.

You give your speech on "prestigious colleges" aren't that exception. Everyone knows that, not all Asian parents are tiger parents. They just want their kid to do well, it isn't like Amy Chua's "Hymn of a Tiger Mother" where the kid gets piano lesson, Debate team, schools' bowling champion, etc. Usually the Asian parents pressure their kids to at least do well, and most of them choose CUNY or SUNY over Ivy Leagues with low financial aid and outrageous tuition.

All I am saying is don't deny these kids an opportunity a chance at a specialized high school. It's like denying a kid the opportunity to be a pilot and convincing them a regular job is better than being a pilot because being a pilot is tough. How do you know if the kid wants to be a pilot or get a regular job? Give the kid a chance to taste what it's like to be a pilot.
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Old 09-22-2018, 05:08 PM
 
3,632 posts, read 2,021,781 times
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There are more test prep classes in Asian neighborhood because Asians open businesses offering these classes, and more Asian parents are paying for these classes

Last edited by Shoshanarose; 09-22-2018 at 05:24 PM..
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Old 09-22-2018, 06:16 PM
 
187 posts, read 119,786 times
Reputation: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumbleboom View Post
You keep saying fair competition, but right now DeBlasio's solution is to give people who don't even want to bother to compete a seat while denying people who want to compete even an opportunity.

On the day of the SHSAT, it a weekend and in the morning as well. If you look at the statistics on which racial group shows up the most, more Asians people show up therefore more Asians get into specialized high schools. I debated the African Americans and Hispanics who complain about not knowing what day the day of the test was, or how they can't be bothered to go the local public library to look for a SHSAT prep book, or even buy SHSAT prep book online. If they can't, they can go to Barnes and Nobles. The reality is that these prep schools or cram schools just the same material as the SHSAT book, they photocopy the pages. There is no big secret formula that these cram schools are giving kids. You exaggerate the amount of tutoring centers in Asian communities. It isn't every other block. DeBlasio literally gave Blacks and Hispanics free SHSAT tutoring aka Discover Program and BEACON. The two groups aren't biting that hard because they don't care that much about it. The government officials are pushing for it harder than the parents are. Also the Latinos and African Americans who do get into specialized high schools are the hard working type. I know that they feel like they are on their own because they are surrounded by Asians and are a token minority. They had a chance to decline enrollment and go to a local zone high school. The hard working type who got in don't bother that much because they would rather be in a competitive environment rather than wanting more Blacks and Hispanics. The only reason why this is a problem is because of an image problem rather than a education problem. Specialized high schools aren't failing, but are doing well, it just makes Latinos and African Americans look bad that there are only a handful of them in specialized high schools.

They want to correct this image, but instead of having everyone try harder to get tutoring. They want to get rid of the obstacle and just get the reward. The SHSAT is the least of their problems. Plus the students make the school prestigious not the other way around. There is no secret formula that teachers are feeding the kids at Bronx Science. The kids came prepared to jump through obstacles, whether it's getting up early in the morning and taking an hour and half commute on the train from Queens to Bronx Science or from Flushing to Stuyvesant. They aren't afraid to carry textbooks and read on the train. Kids in these schools are nerdy, meaning they don't care whether people think they are nerds. In the African American communities, the nerdy kids get bullied because it defies the social norms in that culture.

Another truth is that the Chinese kids don't try very hard in cram school either. No offense to the SHSAT, but the math section is hideously easy until the last 2 questions. So math section is a breeze and the load is already lessen by mainly focusing on the scrambled paragraphs, the logic section, and the reading section. Many Asians see the SHSAT as a pre-SAT since the format is really similar. You make it sound like without the cram schools, many Asians won't get into specialized high schools. I disagree because the SHSAT standard is already low enough that there are Asians who don't prep and still get in.

Not to mention that many Asian kids in cram school already know each other. Since racial groups cluster around the same neighborhoods, the Asian kids knew each other since elementary school, and middle school. So they all get into high school together, whether it's Stuyvesant, Brooklyn Tech, Bronx Science. I don't think any Asian would be okay with being separated from their friends and going to a majority black school where they don't fit in and get fun of for being in the accelerated class.

It also turns out many Asian American kids are bullied more than any other racial groups, and the experience of alienation is particular especially when there are literally one or two Asians in a class or school or town full of white people. This causes a lot of mental anguish, social problems, and self hatred. This is also a motivation to why these kids want to get into specialized high schools, because they like talking about computer games.

And yeah there are Asian kids having relationship and sex in specialized high schools, but it is hidden. I don't ever recall seeing a single mother in a specialized high schools. In a competitive environment, people are more focus on schoolwork than messing around and getting pregnant. The boys are busy talking about handball, basketball, Maplestory, League of Legends than getting girls pregnant. While the girls are swooning over Kpop, makeup, fashion, etc.

You think that Asians can be academically exception, except not in a specialized high schools. You keep thinking it is the parents pushing the kids around, without realizing the kids also have a desire to succeed. If they want to succeed and be in a specialized high school, then having that goal taken away because DeBlasio top 7% from every middle school stymie those hopes. Because everyone in NYC knows, after the specialized high schools, besides NEST+M (screen school), Hunter High School (screen school), BARD early college (also screen school), Eleanor Roosevelt, Townsend Harris (all the way in Queens far from the subway), all the other public high schools are AWFUL.

Asians do work with the best in their situation where the ones who don't get in go to local zoned high school like Fort Hamilton, New Utrecht, John Dewey, Midwood, etc. Guess what? These local high schools are having their standards raised because of an increased in Asian students. But in DeBlasio's new iron rule, the local zoned high schools near Asian neighborhood will become more prestigious than the specialized high schools. And will the NYC mayor agains try to exclude Asians out of their own zoned local high schools?

Try telling an Asian kid he or she is now forced to a black/hispanic majority high school that is considered ****, and that the NYC DOE ran out of solutions to improve these schools, so he or she is forced to go to these failing school because there MUST be a proportional amount of blacks and hispanics in specialized high schools. They will ask about AP classes and when he or she hears that there are fewer or no AP classes, the student will say "Why am I here and not in a school that has AP classes".

You do realize most of the Asians who graduate from specialized high schools go to Buffalo, Stony Brook, Binghamton, Hunter College, Baruch, NYU, St. John's, Brooklyn College, Queens College, and Barnard. Majority city schools, state schools, NYC schools. Some go to UChicago, Northeastern, Boston College, Boston University, TUFTS, and UCLA. And a sliver of them go to Princeton, Harvard, Cornell, Columbia, MIT, and Stanford.

You give your speech on "prestigious colleges" aren't that exception. Everyone knows that, not all Asian parents are tiger parents. They just want their kid to do well, it isn't like Amy Chua's "Hymn of a Tiger Mother" where the kid gets piano lesson, Debate team, schools' bowling champion, etc. Usually the Asian parents pressure their kids to at least do well, and most of them choose CUNY or SUNY over Ivy Leagues with low financial aid and outrageous tuition.

All I am saying is don't deny these kids an opportunity a chance at a specialized high school. It's like denying a kid the opportunity to be a pilot and convincing them a regular job is better than being a pilot because being a pilot is tough. How do you know if the kid wants to be a pilot or get a regular job? Give the kid a chance to taste what it's like to be a pilot.

Yes, unfortunately there are some Asian students who go to majority Black/Latino schools that do get picked on, but there are also some that actually get along with the Blacks/Latinos very easily. It depends on the person and what schools. Bullying is everywhere regardless of race or what school it is. You are aware there is bullying within even Asian students. It may not be a racial thing, sometimes it is just plain jealousy and wanting to feel superior than the other person. Especially since the Asians are so jealous of each other to want to be smarter than the other person and want to look better than the other person that they talk down on the others just to make them look and feel good and some of them try to dominate everything and will sabotage other students just to ruin their reputations or lower their grades. Just because you have not seen teen pregnancy in specialized high schools, it does not mean it does not exist. Maybe some of them were smart enough to go to clinics to get an abortion without letting their parents know and there are now clinics that allow the teenage girls the right to not have any family members know or they could have transferred out before anyone knew. There are always students transferring from different schools.

Just for your information, not all majority Black/Latino student body High Schools are all in Latino/Black neighborhoods. In almost all NYC white neighborhoods, the regular public high schools are mostly a student majority of Latino/Blacks and although they are not the best performing schools in the NYC, they are still much better than the High Schools that are in the Black/Latino neighborhoods. The Asian students that go to majority Black/Latino high schools mostly go to the ones in white neighborhoods, many in Manhattan although a few in Downtown Brooklyn areas and certain parts of Queens. They are not going to go to the high schools in the Black/Latino neighborhoods, which are much worse.

You know the reason why the regular high school students in the white neighborhoods are mostly Latinos/Blacks, but not from the local neighborhoods? You should know and probably you do, because many of the Blacks/Latinos do not want to go to schools in their neighborhoods, which the schools and their areas are in bad shape and dangerous so they attend the high schools in the white neighborhoods to get away from all these problems and usually they are likely to want to get a decent passing grade at least if not be a straight A student. Yes, sometimes they still bring in the problems from their neighborhoods like fights, bullying, and things of that nature, but it is still comparatively much better than the high schools in the actual Latino/Black neighborhoods. And yes, because of the influx of black/Latino students in the high schools in the white neighborhoods, many of the local white residents do not want their children in these schools and send them off to private schools. The Asians that go to a majority Black/Latino high school in the white neighborhoods are more likely to get along with most of the students to some extent since most of the Blacks/Latinos that are going to high schools in white neighborhoods are trying get away from the dangerous problems in their areas and know that their zone schools are terrible and want to get a good education although they may not always aim for being a straight A student, but of course there will always be some that are not so nice and are bullies and are disruptive.

The worse high schools in NYC are mostly in actual Black/Latino neighborhoods and you will almost never see an Asian student in a Black/Latino neighborhood attending high school. The regular high schools in the white neighborhoods are mostly Black/Latino students, but they are still better than the ones in the Black/Latino communities although not always the best academically performing, so they kind of come in the middle. Not too great, but not the worse. Yet, of course the elite high schools are the top performing schools.

About your statement on pushing yourself to want to go to the top elite schools, yes you are right. It is up to the individual to want it or not and not necessarily have to be the parents pushing them and to try to look for the resources out there including the books to prepare for shsat. But do you know that the bookstores are also easily available in the Chinese American communities, which carry these academic advanced placement prep exams? You probably already know they are easily available. But in the Latino and Black communities, like tutoring programs, the bookstores are also not as readily available within convenience with these kinds of book resources as well in their communities. So yes, for many of the Blacks/Latinos it may be far for them to have to travel to Barnes and Noble to pick up a book like this and many of them are living in bad situations where they do not have the time or convenience because many of them are living in bad situations where they are needed in the household to care for their siblings sometimes even cousins because their mother or father may not have time to be in the home and have to work and very often it is a single parent household and they may not always necessarily become teenage parents. The Asians particularly the Chinese do not have to travel far as they can easily get them in their own enclaves and they are not suffering with the same issues like the Black/Latino communities with single parenthood and needing to be the family caretaker, so they have the time to study all they want including the easy convenience and time to go to a book store or to travel to one by subway or bus.

For many Asians who go to a majority Black/Latino high school, at first they may have a hard time understanding their situations even getting along, but slowly some of them eventually learn to get along and begin to learn about the social problems that go on in the Latino/Black communities and they become more open minded and sometimes it can make them even begin to realize about the social problems going on in their own communities that are never spoken of out loud and they sometimes begin to learn to speak their minds as well. Unfortunately, in the Asian communities, their social skills are so conservative to the point that even discussing their own minds or opinions even only little things is an outrage and forbidden and as a result, social issues in Asian communities are not really discussed or protested and what is even worse is a lot of the American generation Asians that become college educated forget their communities and move out and do not even come back to invest in the communities they grew up to help resolve/reduce social problems going on in the Asian American communities and not even speak about it. Especially with the affordable housing crisis going on in the city, but look at what is happening. All of these affordable housing programs being built to help with this crisis are mainly in areas that are gentrifying and getting an increase white populations or in Latino/Black communities, but in the Asian American communities, they are excluded. Partly it is the government officials stereotyping Asians that they do not need help and thinking they are all rich, but a lot of the successful Asian property owners do not want to participate to invest in helping out their own communities to bring a certain number of apartments that can be tax credits and affordable rents. The Asians often do not really help each other when it comes to social problems going on. They only help when there is money involved. Even in a lot of the white neighborhoods, which is now getting an increase of residents that need affordable housing programs are also excluded and it is the same thing. Their own property developers in the areas do not want to help their own and a lot of the whites do not want to help each other as well. A lot of the Asians and Whites are all for themselves.

Look, for many Asians it may be difficult to break away from their own groups in the beginning, but sometimes it can become a good thing because they can become more open minded and learn about other cultures including understanding more about social problems going on in the city and different neighborhoods. A lot of Asians are very ignorant about the social problems going or very limited in knowing there are issues going on in the city and society and maybe by some of them being in majority Black/Latino schools, it can make them wake up and realize the social issues going on and not stay in their bubbles all the time.

Like I have said, I do not agree with De Blasio's method of diversifying the elite schools. I agree it still should be given to the actual very talented high grade students and there should be no quota system and the shsat exam should stay where it is, opening up the availability of the educational resources in the Latino/Black neighborhoods tutoring center and yes including book stores that carry these kinds of prep exam books can help increase more straight A and academically well performing students including more wanting to be in these kinds of elite schools. I may have exaggerated about a tutoring program on every block in the Asian community, but there more conveniently available or concentrated within closer distances than in the Black/Latino communities.

You need to understand something about the Latino/Black communities. They suffered a long time of discrimination from the dominant white society and Blacks were not given the equal opportunities to education and jobs and they suffered hundreds of years of slavery. Even after abolishing slavery in USA, blacks were still not given equal opportunities to quality education/jobs like the whites and were not allowed to integrate. As a result many blacks were driven into very poor situations, racial discrimination, poverty and limited opportunities to great jobs that to some point it became part of the norm of their communities and even though the policies to prevent discrimination is now enforced, many of the black communities unfortunately are still suffering with that influence left behind and city agencies still do not always invest in resources needed for their communities and many continue to feel they cannot have a better educational/economic background than what they have right now. The Latinos may not have been in USA during the 1800s or earlier, but in Latin America a lot of African slaves were imported and there were native American slaves, which lasted for a long time. Now in Latin America, when slavery was abolished, there were no policies to ban them from integrating with other races including whites, so this is why you see a mix different varieties of skin colors like rainbow, but the unfortunately the Latinos that are not purely white were and are still discriminated along with the fact that their countries are still not fully developed and have corrupt governments and are suffering with the same influence of educational/economic barriers that the Black American communities are still suffering with and when they arrive into the USA's Latin American enclaves, they continue to be under that influence thinking they cannot have it better than what they have, although the Latino communities usually have it slightly better than the Black communities in terms of academics and jobs/businesses, but not by much more. So it is still going to take a while for their communities to fully realize the resources and educational opportunities out there to help them with economic mobility, but the government also has to step in as well.

There were always Chinese as early as the 1800s during the continental railroad construction/gold rush era, and yes they did suffer horrible discrimination, but their numbers were very small and mostly men and the Chinese exclusion act came immediately, so their populations remained small for almost another 100 years that even if you collected all of USA's Chinese population from all around that lasted from the 1800s until mid 1900s, it would only be the size of the East Village and overlap a little bit into Lower East Side maybe. However, most of the Chinese and other Asians came post 1965 and civil rights era and afterwards when immigration policies were expanded to allow immigrants from Asia, Latin America, Caribbean and even Africa to arrive. By this time, racial and ethnic relations although still had issues, but were much better than they were back in the early 1900s, so most of the Chinese and Asians that arrived into the USA and their future generations did not suffer the same discrimination like the Blacks did for 100s of years and comparatively it was easier for them to get a good education and get a good job and even own great businesses coupled with their values of education and hard work coming from China. However, it does not mean they do not suffer with discrimination, which they still do, but they did not have the same horrific experiences like the Blacks with slavery, Jim Crow Laws, and encountering the KKKs in the south.

Last edited by toby2016; 09-22-2018 at 07:45 PM..
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Old 09-22-2018, 07:23 PM
 
Location: NYC
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In NJ, the state and donors spent millions of $$ on charter schools around NJ at poor areas and it hasn't produced huge gains. I bet the state spent more per kid in Newark than many Chinese immigrant spent on cram schools and the kids at Newark majority will still lag behind those kids with parents that invest in their kids after school education. '

You can't socialize education, every good teacher says that parental involvement is the #1 key to their kid's success.
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Old 09-22-2018, 07:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
At the end of the day, students that don't get into those schools but are competitive enough will still do great at their local HS and if their parents send them to prep schools they can still get into Ivy league colleges. I don't think their chances will be hurt by not getting into a good HS. It all depends on how competitive the student does in your school grades, SAT, and community work.

What excuses DeBlasio will make if the kids he bumped up doesn't make it to top colleges? Now he's gonna write letters to Columbia and Harvard and complain they aren't accepting his diversity program?

Higher education doesn't concern BdeB and his egit of a school chancellor; all they care about is feeding red meat to their base.


It is the standard democrat/liberal/progressive play book since the 1960's; push people in where they otherwise wouldn't be even if it means (and often does) lower the bar. This usually results in driving away high achievers and others who worked/earned their place, and soon you're left with another "hood" or whatever that is just as bad as whatever the "pushed in" fled in first place.


Democrats, liberals and now socialists keep trying to legislate morality, and it blows up in their faces nearly every single time.
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Old 09-22-2018, 07:51 PM
 
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Every parent who has has kids in public school will understand the impact that just one disruptive kid can have in a classroom. Academic standards are one way where you can weed out those kids and be left with a high performing and relatively disciplined group where the instructor can effectively teach the class.

By removing the standards, you're going to bring down the performance of the entire system. The disruptive kids, who are very difficult to remove, will take attention away from the teacher who is already dealing with an overcrowded classroom. Extra hand holding will be needed which will also prevent the teacher from taking the performing kids further.

Bottom line: it will become almost impossible for any student to obtain a high level education in the public system
If the policy is to ensure that everyone is equal, you will achieve it, everything will be taught and everyone will be instructed at the lowest common denominator.
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Old 09-22-2018, 08:22 PM
 
Location: NY
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Ok folks...............please ...............whatever you do.......do not ..................please......do not boycott............
Chinese Restaurants. I just can't go a day without my chicken wings and fried rice ..............yum....................
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Old 09-22-2018, 08:34 PM
 
3,378 posts, read 3,251,507 times
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Originally Posted by Mr.Retired View Post
Ok folks...............please ...............whatever you do.......do not ..................please......do not boycott............
Chinese Restaurants. I just can't go a day without my chicken wings and fried rice ..............yum....................

Which boro do you reside in, Mr.? I can send you to a real good Chinese place...
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Old 09-22-2018, 11:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Bumbleboom View Post
Why would a Latino parent or African American parent complain about keeping the SHSAT when they stand to gain from this change.
That is a gross overgeneralization.

My child is half black.

I am 100% opposed to removing the test, or anything else that would make admissions based on race instead of based on scholastic aptitude.

I know my kid, like me and her mother, will score above 99% on standardized tests.

There are plenty of black and latino kids who can destroy aptitude tests, and suggesting otherwise is an insult to their intelligence.
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Old 09-23-2018, 12:41 AM
 
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Do the same for the NBA, NFL, and UFC. Fair is fair? Right?!
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