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Atlanta is now more business friendly than New York. One of these days, calling anyone the New York of the South/Midwest/West will be a knock, not a compliment.
Sure, because the risk isn't that great. They're going to expand in this city no matter what as are their peers and the tech industry as a whole and that waterfront property was always going to be built on fairly quickly. Is that minimized "punishment" of Amazon leaving worth revisiting the efficacy of New York tax incentives policy for the city? Probably.
That is no way to make deals though. Amazon negotiated in good faith and agreed to all sorts of extractions made by state/city pols. It would be a signal to all other businesses saying that NYS/NYC is not a reliable partner in negotiations and that it is useless to negotiate with the Governor of the state or the Mayor of the city, since apparently they are either lying and/or don't have the negotiating power needed to struck deals. Doing business deals and extracting favorable terms is all about trust. It would be a signal to all other companies that the Gov/Mayor are not to be trusted when it comes to making these kinds of decisions. There are plenty of other perfectly competent states and cities to do business in. That waterfront property ain't gonna bring 25,000 jobs that's for sure. It is not really good real estate, next to a ConEd plant and not that close to subway. I think they were planning to build some affordable housing there in the future, after doing soil remediation.
That is no way to make deals though. Amazon negotiated in good faith and agreed to all sorts of extractions made by state/city pols. It would be a signal to all other businesses saying that NYS/NYC is not a reliable partner in negotiations and that it is useless to negotiate with the Governor of the state or the Mayor of the city, since apparently they are either lying and/or don't have the negotiating power needed to struck deals. There are plenty of other perfectly competent states and cities to do business in. That waterfront property ain't gonna bring 25,000 jobs that's for sure. It is not really good real estate, next to a ConEd plant and not that close to subway. I think they were planning to build some affordable housing there in the future, after doing soil remediation.
I know, it's a ****ty place to be. You would hope the governor and mayor would have been smart enough to not have rolled over like that. The whole thing is a stupid mess.
Sure, there are plenty of other competent states and cities do business in and these companies are expanding in many of them--they were expanding in some particularly large numbers here compared to most other US cities. A lot of that is because the tech themselves have greatly diversified what it does. There are some very good reasons for why they've expanded. I know that the head count at Google in the last few years has massively expanded here.
This going away, if it does, isn't a death knell for the city or the tech industry here, and like I've said, I'm for Amazon expanding here. However, because of that, I'm also of the opinion that this is potentially a good condition for going over the efficacy of and potentially limiting the use of these incentives.
Not so important, but since you took the time to point it out--some portions would have gone to affordable housing given the bonuses for doing, but the parcel itself is very large and parts of it are bordering or just across the little inlet from luxury high-rises. There's a lot of luxury waterfront property there now, across the inlet, that is a further walk to most stations in the area. I guess a Con Ed plant is ugly, but the plant itself is over a quarter mile away from the closest parcel that are slated for the campus. Going north from that, there's a Con Ed office building and then a big ol' Con Ed parking lot and then the Con Ed Plant. There's plenty of expensive construction closer to Con Ed plants in other parts of the city, most notably in DUMBO. One thing I do like about the plan, is that the location is great for a major Amazon operations
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 02-13-2019 at 08:26 AM..
Again, 25k jobs for who? Everyone deploying that number to defend Amazon coming here is doing so in bad faith - they know WHO will be getting those jobs and it’s not the regular Queens resident. It’ll be Becky from UMichigan who wants to “do the NY thing for a few years,” that’s not a win for NY. And all the businesses that open up in LIC BECAUSE of Amazon will be appealing to Becky, not to Queens residents, with Becky prices. Just admit you want the working class out of NYC.
The people positively affected by this will be 1) those who don’t even live here yet and 2) those who didn’t live here five years ago. That’s not good for NY.
Again, 25k jobs for who? Everyone deploying that number to defend Amazon coming here is doing so in bad faith - they know WHO will be getting those jobs and it’s not the regular Queens resident. It’ll be Becky from UMichigan who wants to “do the NY thing for a few years,” that’s not a win for NY. And all the businesses that open up in LIC BECAUSE of Amazon will be appealing to Becky, not to Queens residents, with Becky prices. Just admit you want the working class out of NYC.
The people positively affected by this will be 1) those who don’t even live here yet and 2) those who didn’t live here five years ago. That’s not good for NY.
I agree. Those 25K jobs (especially the top paying ones) will go to the best candidate in USA, Canada, Europe, Asia, etc. I don't believe Amazon is under no obligation to hire NY/NYC residents only. I can also see Amazon using recruiters to poach other employees from tech companies or similar companies.
Also, it's not 25K at 1 job it would take them a couple of years to reach that 25K #.
Many of those 25K jobs will be filled by existing residents poached from other NY based companies. Other roles will be filled by incoming talent. The same thing will happen if Google, Microsoft, or any other big tech company opens thousands of new positions. Forcing legislation on employers to hire local would be a nail in the coffin for the NYC job market.
Becky Schmecky, don't forget Rahamanduan Bharchatarathsee and his 1000 pals from 10,000 miles away (also not true NYC residents) living their lives in their brown bubble, getting to spend every waking moment and lunch time with people exactly like themselves just the way they like it even though they're from 10,000 miles away (while I'm bitterly alone even though I've lived in NYC metro area my entire life...I know I know, its my own responsibility to make friends, just making the point that if I were an expat American in some foreign country, my fellow expats would socialize with me because I'm American like them, but actually being in America makes my Americanness...absolutely worthless).
Many of those 25K jobs will be filled by existing residents poached from other NY based companies. Other roles will be filled by incoming talent. The same thing will happen if Google, Microsoft, or any other big tech company opens thousands of new positions. Forcing legislation on employers to hire local would be a nail in the coffin for the NYC job market.
Who are the existing residents in other NY-based companies tho? They seem to be primarily from one sector - well-off transplants. When those transplants leave their NY-based companies to take Amazon positions, who is replacing them at their old jobs? More transplants. That is the dilemma here. Bring Amazon to NYC, but require Amazon to hire local talent - set a quota of at least 50% NYC-born employees, 25% CUNY-graduates, SOMETHING that isn’t more of the same of the last 20 years. People would not be so hostile to Amazon if they weren’t going down this very predictable path. And if a few companies opt not to come here because they don’t want to hire real New Yorkers, then good, gtfo. These companies are all hiring the same people, why do you think your average Joe cares if they come or don’t come? Most of that money they make for the city will benefit the people in the income brackets of Amazon. I don’t care if Amazon helps property values in LIC - LIC is already for wealthier transplants, no tears if their condos go up only $300,000 in value as opposed to $1m. But lots of tears for the hundreds of thousands of people in Astoria, Corona, Jackson Heights, Elmhurst, and elsewhere in this city who will be displaced out of the city by people who didn’t even live here five years ago.
Totally irrelevant. They'll move here, they'll spend money, they'll improve the economy. If someone from Queens wants to work for them, they can. But they need to get off their a$$ and develop the skills and get the credentials necessary. If they can't compete, the SHOULD get squeezed out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtual Insanity
Again, 25k jobs for who? Everyone deploying that number to defend Amazon coming here is doing so in bad faith - they know WHO will be getting those jobs and it’s not the regular Queens resident. It’ll be Becky from UMichigan who wants to “do the NY thing for a few years,” that’s not a win for NY. And all the businesses that open up in LIC BECAUSE of Amazon will be appealing to Becky, not to Queens residents, with Becky prices. Just admit you want the working class out of NYC.
The people positively affected by this will be 1) those who don’t even live here yet and 2) those who didn’t live here five years ago. That’s not good for NY.
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