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You can find the median income of any Bronx zip code, just about none of them suggest the average worker makes 120-200k.
And Staten Island isn't necessarily that expensive (there are some moderately priced houses), but prices are going up throughout the island and there are some pretty expensive neighborhoods.
This website tells me that the median household income in every area I've inhabited from birth to today is under 40K, but I can't understand how that makes any sense if people are working steadily and getting raises. I have the feeling that the income stats aren't normally distributed. By average, I mean mean or mode, not just median.
This website tells me that the median household income in every area I've inhabited from birth to today is under 40K, but I can't understand how that makes any sense if people are working steadily and getting raises. I have the feeling that the income stats aren't normally distributed. By average, I mean mean or mode, not just median.
It's totally feasible, the Bronx has a lot of poverty and people making minimum wage or not working at all. How much money do you think retail and service workers are making?
It's totally feasible, the Bronx has a lot of poverty and people making minimum wage or not working at all. How much money do you think retail and service workers are making?
Yeah sure there are a lot of EIC recipients, but if they had roommates or lived with their families, wouldn't they be considered part of the same "household" for statistical purposes?
This website tells me that the median household income in every area I've inhabited from birth to today is under 40K, but I can't understand how that makes any sense if people are working steadily and getting raises. I have the feeling that the income stats aren't normally distributed. By average, I mean mean or mode, not just median.
Don't worry about the shape of the distribution. Also, averages are meaningless when you have fat tails in the distribution, meaning when you have a lot of folks with very small income and lots of folks with very high income distorting the average. Medians are more meaningful, since they shows the point where 1/2 of all people make less or more than the median figure. Also meaningful are percentiles. They work in the same way and show percentage of people above or below a specific income figure. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of people in Queens are not in the top income bracket. Most people are up to their gills in debt too.
Don't worry about the shape of the distribution. Also, averages are meaningless when you have fat tails in the distribution, meaning when you have a lot of folks with very small income and lots of folks with very high income distorting the average. Medians are more meaningful, since they shows the point where 1/2 of all people make less or more than the median figure. Also meaningful are percentiles. They work in the same way and show percentage of people above or below a specific income figure. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of people in Queens are not in the top income bracket. Most people are up to their gills in debt too.
Yeah I saw a percentiles chart as well. In a curious twist of affairs about 50% of my friends believe that 25K is the average salary and the other think that 70K is pennies. It's a much wider spread than other places, I think.
The 70K group lives in a different cluster of neighborhoods but their apartments / rooms are actually smaller than the 25K people. Some basically live in a mouse hole. It would be in a non convenient part of Manhattan or Brooklyn but cost as much as a 3BR in the Bronx or Cypress Hills.
How much do you think they make and where do they work? I always thought the modal resident of places like Pelham Parkway and Parkchester and roughly 40% of those in the inner city, were low level finance, healthcare, or tech professionals who hold MS degrees from City College, and are certified with licenses such as CFA, CPA, Actuary, and Series 7. The area around Lincoln Hospital naturally contains doctors, while the court house area attracts lawyers.
Aha, Parkchester, my special interest area :-). I wish "the modal resident of Parkchester" held an MS from City College or any college! Per 2010 census, only about 6% of adult residents of Parkchester had a degree higher than Bachelor's, and 1/3 of adult Parkchester residents had not even completed high school. That may have improved somewhat in the last decade (next year's census should be interesting), but not very dramatically. I don't think that the median or mode of education in Parkchester at this time reaches even the level of "some college", let alone a postgraduate degree. Professionals do live in Parkchester, but they are surely not a majority, or the average, or the median, or the mode for this neighborhood. Which is too bad, because I think Parkchester is very suitable for a young busy person who has no money yet and is focused on building a career.
Educated H visa holders are not the ones driving the rent up in Parkchester, as you mentioned in another post (they typically do not have any money during their first several years in the US). What drives rents up in neighborhoods like Parkchester are Section 8 subsidized housing vouchers. I believe the Section 8 voucher for the smallest apartment is now around $1,400 per month, and that is what sets the minimum rental price in the city.
Aha, Parkchester, my special interest area :-). I wish "the modal resident of Parkchester" held an MS from City College or any college! Per 2010 census, only about 6% of adult residents of Parkchester had a degree higher than Bachelor's, and 1/3 of adult Parkchester residents had not even completed high school. That may have improved somewhat in the last decade (next year's census should be interesting), but not very dramatically. I don't think that the median or mode of education in Parkchester at this time reaches even the level of "some college", let alone a postgraduate degree. Professionals do live in Parkchester, but they are surely not a majority, or the average, or the median, or the mode for this neighborhood. Which is too bad, because I think Parkchester is very suitable for a young busy person who has no money yet and is focused on building a career.
Educated H visa holders are not the ones driving the rent up in Parkchester, as you mentioned in another post (they typically do not have any money during their first several years in the US). What drives rents up in neighborhoods like Parkchester are Section 8 subsidized housing vouchers. I believe the Section 8 voucher for the smallest apartment is now around $1,400 per month, and that is what sets the minimum rental price in the city.
Yeah I had the stereotypical thought that many of the South Asian people coming to the US were on the H visa and I put two and two together. This is because a lot of Indian and Bangladeshi people I meet work in tech.
I had hitherto believed that most people in the area south of Parkchester, like Story Avenue, or the area by New Horizons Mall were on the H visa actually. This is the area I spend more time in within that neighborhood. I wonder what the career breakdown is like, there. Sometimes I conversate with people on the train and in restaurants like Crown Fried Chicken and they say they work a "basic job".
1400 a month is crazy high to me for a small apartment. I think setting a price floor that high is part of what's leading to the problems within society because it's significantly higher than the market clearing price. It's the same problem with the minimum wage hike. Supply and demand curves are a natural force and tampering with that can cause major issues as in communism.
Last edited by fatsquirrel; 03-28-2019 at 08:49 AM..
Yeah I had the stereotypical thought that many of the South Asian people coming to the US were on the H visa and I put two and two together. This is because a lot of Indian and Bangladeshi people I meet work in tech.
I had hitherto believed that most people in the area south of Parkchester, like Story Avenue, or the area by New Horizons Mall were on the H visa actually. This is the area I spend more time in within that neighborhood. I wonder what the career breakdown is like, there. Sometimes I conversate with people on the train and in restaurants like Crown Fried Chicken and they say they work a "basic job".
1400 a month is crazy high to me for a small apartment. I think setting a price floor that high is part of what's leading to the problems within society because it's significantly higher than the market clearing price. It's the same problem with the minimum wage hike. Supply and demand curves are a natural force and tampering with that can cause major issues as in communism.
There certainly are H-visa South Asians in Parkcheater who work in higher-level jobs (not just tech but also research and medicine - I know of two examples); however, my impression is not that they are any kind of majority subset of Parkchester residents. I think most South Asians in Parkchester immigrate through family connections (one member of the family manages a Green Card through lottery or H visa or "asylum" or whatever, and then 150 other family members get their Green Cards through being related to the lottery winner. Waiting time gets progressively longer for more remote family connections, but I know an Indian woman who got a Green Card through her H-visa-holding sister about 12 years after she applied from India, and she was quite okay with waiting). My impression is also that most immigrant South Asians (ie, the first generation, not their kids) are employed in some type of small business (or a fairly large-ish family business, such as that GEM superstore for housing items near the Parkchester condo complex), again through family connections.
Those Parkchesterites who are not South Asians but other three Parkchester majorities (Puerto Ricans, Dominicans and African Americans) tend to work basic but stable jobs. It is a decent, honest working-class community overall, but also overall not very educated. Parkchester Condo associations do not rent to Section 8 (that is in their written rental rules) which (along with Parkchester security that patrols the condo complexes 24/7) helps keeping criminal riffraff out of the area, but some private investors who own units in Parkchester probably still do accept welfare vouchers. Section 8 welfare people are widely disliked in Parkchester because, again, it is primarily a community of working people who pay rents or mortgages from their own hard-earned limited money.
Needless to say, I fully agree with your last paragraph.
Incidentally, in connection with the original topic of this thread, Parkchester might be among the best places in NYC to raise a family while being poor (something that I personally do not support, but have to acknowledge that it happens regularly), although it is obviously not in Queens but in the Bronx. I understand the local public schools are the average (meaning miserable places where kids loiter pointlessly and learn nothing), but otherwise the neighborhood is generally safe and pleasant for a growing child with poor parents.
There certainly are H-visa South Asians in Parkcheater who work in higher-level jobs (not just tech but also research and medicine - I know of two examples); however, my impression is not that they are any kind of majority subset of Parkchester residents. I think most South Asians in Parkchester immigrate through family connections (one member of the family manages a Green Card through lottery or H visa or "asylum" or whatever, and then 150 other family members get their Green Cards through being related to the lottery winner. Waiting time gets progressively longer for more remote family connections, but I know an Indian woman who got a Green Card through her H-visa-holding sister about 12 years after she applied from India, and she was quite okay with waiting). My impression is also that most immigrant South Asians (ie, the first generation, not their kids) are employed in some type of small business (or a fairly large-ish family business, such as that GEM superstore for housing items near the Parkchester condo complex), again through family connections.
Those Parkchesterites who are not South Asians but other three Parkchester majorities (Puerto Ricans, Dominicans and African Americans) tend to work basic but stable jobs. It is a decent, honest working-class community overall, but also overall not very educated. Parkchester Condo associations do not rent to Section 8 (that is in their written rental rules) which (along with Parkchester security that patrols the condo complexes 24/7) helps keeping criminal riffraff out of the area, but some private investors who own units in Parkchester probably still do accept welfare vouchers. Section 8 welfare people are widely disliked in Parkchester because, again, it is primarily a community of working people who pay rents or mortgages from their own hard-earned limited money.
Needless to say, I fully agree with your last paragraph.
Incidentally, in connection with the original topic of this thread, Parkchester might be among the best places in NYC to raise a family while being poor (something that I personally do not support, but have to acknowledge that it happens regularly), although it is obviously not in Queens but in the Bronx. I understand the local public schools are the average (meaning miserable places where kids loiter pointlessly and learn nothing), but otherwise the neighborhood is generally safe and pleasant for a growing child with poor parents.
All NYC schools are required to provide the same basic curriculum.
I also saw an ad for a job at Parkchester Security that violated EEOC, it required US citizenship rather than a work visa - I feel this is discriminatory
I do not think poor parents can afford to stay in Parkchester without Section 8.
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