U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Happy Easter!
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-14-2019, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Manhattan
20,942 posts, read 27,541,214 times
Reputation: 9468

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
if you ever see their inner workings you begin to see why it cost so much for power ...

it cost them a fortune to buy these stupid greenhouse credits .. new jersey bailed out years ago and we share air ... it makes no sense we still continue in this program

AND they have no competition, AND profits are enormous, AND managers are WAY overpaid, AND their is no oversight. They write their own blank checks.


PSE&G, my last provider, charges HALF of what Con=Ed charges. All that would be needed is laying a huge cable under the Hudson to get $.16 electricity instead of $.32 electricity.


Con-Ed are government sanctioned THIEVES.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-14-2019, 12:34 PM
 
Location: New York City
7,800 posts, read 5,943,867 times
Reputation: 5531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kefir King View Post
All that would be needed is laying a huge cable under the Hudson to get $.16 electricity instead of $.32 electricity.
Umm, "All" would actually be hundreds of millions in this cesspool of government red tape, kick backs, and unions

And power on the East bank of Jersey is NOT half price, it's pretty damn close to what we pay in NYC. It's all about congestion, too many people + too few pipes, and that goes for all of Jersey close to us. You have to get to the Pennsylvania border to start getting cheaper power
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2019, 03:15 PM
 
1,417 posts, read 501,712 times
Reputation: 1442
Quote:
Originally Posted by luau View Post
I just moved here from the bay area and was shocked at how much gas and electric is. My landlord pays for gas so my supply (usage) charge was $0 but "delivery" charges totaled around $19. My electricity "delivery" charges totaled around $20.

In the bay area I was responsible for both gas and electric and my total bill a month came out to be $30 in the wintertime! I wonder why

It is a bit surprising, isn't it? I pay 3 utility bills for 3 micro-condos in 3 different cities: Eversource (electricity, which includes stove, in Boston, my primary home condo), PG&E (in San Francisco, electricity and gas stove), and ConEd (in the Bronx, non-residential account, electricity only, which does not include the gas stove or heating that are covered by a separate monthly condo fee).


In Boston, where I use most of the utility services, the monthly bill is generally between $12 and $16 (it may rarely climb up to $19 during a brutally hot/cold month if I run an electric fan or heater fairly continuously).



In San Francisco, where I never use the electrical heating, the bill for electricity + cooking gas runs between $18 and $25, depending whether I am actually not there at all, or am there the whole month.



In the Bronx (as I just discovered, after I took over paying the ConEd bill from the last tenant), for electricity only (no cooking gas or heating included), with a small-ish fridge on low setting being the only appliance actually using electricity, when I am not there at all during a month, the non-residential monthly bill is $40!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2019, 02:40 AM
 
68,584 posts, read 69,311,204 times
Reputation: 46323
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakeJones View Post
Umm, "All" would actually be hundreds of millions in this cesspool of government red tape, kick backs, and unions

And power on the East bank of Jersey is NOT half price, it's pretty damn close to what we pay in NYC. It's all about congestion, too many people + too few pipes, and that goes for all of Jersey close to us. You have to get to the Pennsylvania border to start getting cheaper power
jersey dropped out of the greenhouse credit program years ago . their power generation costs are far lower then ours . millions goes in to that credit program by con ed.

About 60 percent of New York State’s electricity is consumed by residents in the New York City area, where only 40 percent of the electricity is created. It costs a little more to transport the additional power downstate from power plants as far away as Niagara Falls. Yet the distance itself isn’t necessarily the reason for the higher cost.
When there are bottlenecks in the system, grid operators may use local generators in areas of very high demand in the city. Ironically, this energy usually costs consumers even more than if it were coming from hundreds of miles away, because these local generators are quite inefficient.

Additionally, New York City residents pay for backup generators, called “peakers,” that are ready to spring into action throughout the year, but may only be used for a few days during peak usage on the hottest days of summer. The city has about 16 of these power plants, some of which sit on barges, like the Gowanus Gas Turbine Facility that floats in Gowanus Bay in Brooklyn. These plants are also used if transmission lines or power plants upstate are jeopardized.

Ordinary, non-peaker generators throughout the state run at above-demand capacity all year long to guarantee electricity for those peak summer days. Currently, New York customers pay about $2 billion a year for “idle” capacity, according to the New York Public Service Commission.

A large portion of New York City’s electrical network is underground, which makes it more expensive to maintain. And while improvements have been made to the city’s transmission lines, more than 80 percent of them were activated before 1980. The New York Independent System Operator, a nonprofit responsible for operating the state’s electricity grid, estimates that nearly 5,000 miles of transmission lines will have to be replaced in the next 30 years. This will cost about $25 billion, and guess who is paying for this ?

Con Ed relies very heavily on oil for power gëneration whereas the nation as a whole depends to a much greater extent on less expensive coal, gas, and hydropower.

they also need to use low sulfur oil. Due to environmental considerations, Con Ed must burn oil with low sulfur content rather than less expensive high sulfur oil or coal. The cost of low sulfur oil is currently some 20 percent greater than high sulfur oil and at times in recent years has been as high as 40 percent greater.

state and local taxes paid by utilities in New York State are the highest in the nation, downstate New utilities are taxed even more heavily than their upstate counterparts

Con Ed utilizes an underground transmission system which is two to three times more expensive to install than an overhead distribution system. In addition, maintenance of an under- ground system is also more costly than the upkeep of above ground lines.

Last edited by mathjak107; 03-15-2019 at 02:52 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2019, 06:45 AM
 
1,417 posts, read 501,712 times
Reputation: 1442
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
jersey dropped out of the greenhouse credit program years ago . their power generation costs are far lower then ours . millions goes in to that credit program by con ed.

About 60 percent of New York State’s electricity is consumed by residents in the New York City area, where only 40 percent of the electricity is created. It costs a little more to transport the additional power downstate from power plants as far away as Niagara Falls. Yet the distance itself isn’t necessarily the reason for the higher cost.
When there are bottlenecks in the system, grid operators may use local generators in areas of very high demand in the city. Ironically, this energy usually costs consumers even more than if it were coming from hundreds of miles away, because these local generators are quite inefficient.

Additionally, New York City residents pay for backup generators, called “peakers,” that are ready to spring into action throughout the year, but may only be used for a few days during peak usage on the hottest days of summer. The city has about 16 of these power plants, some of which sit on barges, like the Gowanus Gas Turbine Facility that floats in Gowanus Bay in Brooklyn. These plants are also used if transmission lines or power plants upstate are jeopardized.

Ordinary, non-peaker generators throughout the state run at above-demand capacity all year long to guarantee electricity for those peak summer days. Currently, New York customers pay about $2 billion a year for “idle” capacity, according to the New York Public Service Commission.

A large portion of New York City’s electrical network is underground, which makes it more expensive to maintain. And while improvements have been made to the city’s transmission lines, more than 80 percent of them were activated before 1980. The New York Independent System Operator, a nonprofit responsible for operating the state’s electricity grid, estimates that nearly 5,000 miles of transmission lines will have to be replaced in the next 30 years. This will cost about $25 billion, and guess who is paying for this ?

Con Ed relies very heavily on oil for power gëneration whereas the nation as a whole depends to a much greater extent on less expensive coal, gas, and hydropower.

they also need to use low sulfur oil. Due to environmental considerations, Con Ed must burn oil with low sulfur content rather than less expensive high sulfur oil or coal. The cost of low sulfur oil is currently some 20 percent greater than high sulfur oil and at times in recent years has been as high as 40 percent greater.

state and local taxes paid by utilities in New York State are the highest in the nation, downstate New utilities are taxed even more heavily than their upstate counterparts

Con Ed utilizes an underground transmission system which is two to three times more expensive to install than an overhead distribution system. In addition, maintenance of an under- ground system is also more costly than the upkeep of above ground lines.

That's fairly educational. One can see why my compatriot N. Tesla, living in NYC circa 100 years ago, envisioned a world wireless system that would use only inductive coils, no wires. People have been working on the issue as far as I know (it is totally not my field, but I seem to remember reading in Nature magazine about a year or so ago about some research at Stanford where they used a principle similar to Tesla coil to wirelessly charge moving objects at short distances), although the only practical progress so far is that you can charge your phone wirelessly. It does not seem like something that would be incredibly hard to work out, though... maybe the problems with fires that PG&E had in California last fall (it was nasty in San Francisco when I was last there, even though it was just the smoke, I was far from the area of destruction) will accelerate the necessary research. Til then, I guess I'll just pay $40 per month for a little fridge humming away in the Bronx while I am not there. Oh well, there are worse and more expensive things in life...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2019, 10:09 AM
Status: "Eating Shoots and Leaves" (set 3 hours ago)
 
167 posts, read 13,127 times
Reputation: 55
Paste insulation plastic wrap kits around all of the windows in the house to reduce the heating cost. Use your pressure cooker to cook unless you need the oven on to heat your place.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2019, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Manhattan
20,942 posts, read 27,541,214 times
Reputation: 9468
And power on the East bank of Jersey is NOT half price, it's pretty damn close to what we pay in NYC


I have done both with a LOT if data points. Jersey City is truly near HALF the cost per Kwhr of Manhattan.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2019, 11:38 AM
 
Location: New York
2,715 posts, read 2,777,706 times
Reputation: 815
Just to add to the discussion, Con Ed has one of the highest "up" times as any provider in the country. It's probably due to the fact that most of their lines are buried underground. I remember the days of LILCO's line being down after every drizzle of rain.

*LILCO became LIPA, who became Keyspan, who became National Grid, and is now Public Service Enterprise Group.
ConEd is still ConEd.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-16-2019, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Manhattan
20,942 posts, read 27,541,214 times
Reputation: 9468
I lived in Jersey City Heights (PSE&G) for some time before moving to the Waterfront. Every Friday night the drunks would hit the streets. We'd be watching TV and hear "screetch, Bam." into a pole and out would go our electricity for the night


Waterfront had buried lines so it never happened at Newport, except for the Great Blackout.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-16-2019, 09:53 AM
 
68,584 posts, read 69,311,204 times
Reputation: 46323
Under ground service is a big plus but costly. We had ppl in pa. Every storm we would get all sorts of disturbances
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:




Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. | Please obey Forum Rules | Terms of Use and Privacy Policy

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top