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Old 04-03-2019, 07:17 AM
 
8,224 posts, read 4,290,904 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoullessOne View Post
Ah i remember these tests back in my day. I didn't even have the chance to attend one of these schools and was forced to attend my zone school Morris. Now if anyone know about zone schools, their budget relates to the immediate area so if your zone school was surrounded by projects like mine was, best believe the education budget and quality wasn't the best.

I didn't let the low quality education i received dictate my future and turned out decent at how far i am in my career at my current age and managed to hit a 6 figure income before the age of 30 (Im nor longer currently at 6 figures due to a job change). Although attending those specialized schools do open the doors faster to better colleges and networking with contacts in certain social circles it seems one must buy their way in through a back door or side door as the majority of the students are white or asian.

The ability to get an Education shouldn't be placed behind a test it should be offered to who has the drive to want it.

The drive to want it? If a kid has a drive to want an education, he/she will demonstrate it by studying and acing tests. How else does a kid demonstrate "a drive to want an education"? Standardized tests were invented specifically for the purpose to eliminate every bias from student evaluation, and judge the student only on the basis of his/her knowledge of facts and his/her ability to make correct decisions based on these facts.


Bear in mind that these specialized high school admission tests are not the first tests the kids are facing. They have been in school for 8 years already, and have (or have not) gradually attained cognitive skills they need to pass this test. The educational process that gets a student into a specialized high school (or later into a college, a professional school, and through the later career steps) is a long, looong process. One has to stay motivated and involved at every step. In Parkchester, the Bronx, a low income area, as you wait for the 6 train on the platform, you will see a smallish but still visible bright blue billboard advertisement for Khan's Tutoring Service. Based on the location of the ad and the surrounding circumstances, I have a feeling that Khan is an immigrant from a third world country (where, however, kids have an interest and motivation for STEM fields), and Khan's clients are kids from low-income families where there are two parents present in the family (not a single mother), there are no more than two kids per couple, and the parents focus their low-income resources on buying kids an education rather than Yeezy (or whatever that brand is called) sneakers.
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Old 04-03-2019, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
5,427 posts, read 5,661,707 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
Meanwhile religious and other private spend far less and have better outcomes even with the same minority student demographics. Now what does that tell you?
Wait till these people find out that Jews in their yeshivas don't even study secular subjects full time after elementary school. Most state exams like regents are deemed easy enough that they switch their curriculum a year out, and children are expected to study the whole curriculum in that one school year.
In Israel, they don't even teach math, science, literature, etc from years 14-17 to boys especially, but they learn everything from 17-18 for the exams. In those 14-17, they learn reading, debate, reasoning, critical thinking, religious texts, etc. but not anything that is standard fact memorization.
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Old 04-03-2019, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Squirrel Tree
1,199 posts, read 716,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elnrgby View Post
The drive to want it? If a kid has a drive to want an education, he/she will demonstrate it by studying and acing tests. How else does a kid demonstrate "a drive to want an education"? Standardized tests were invented specifically for the purpose to eliminate every bias from student evaluation, and judge the student only on the basis of his/her knowledge of facts and his/her ability to make correct decisions based on these facts.


Bear in mind that these specialized high school admission tests are not the first tests the kids are facing. They have been in school for 8 years already, and have (or have not) gradually attained cognitive skills they need to pass this test. The educational process that gets a student into a specialized high school (or later into a college, a professional school, and through the later career steps) is a long, looong process. One has to stay motivated and involved at every step. In Parkchester, the Bronx, a low income area, as you wait for the 6 train on the platform, you will see a smallish but still visible bright blue billboard advertisement for Khan's Tutoring Service. Based on the location of the ad and the surrounding circumstances, I have a feeling that Khan is an immigrant from a third world country (where, however, kids have an interest and motivation for STEM fields), and Khan's clients are kids from low-income families where there are two parents present in the family (not a single mother), there are no more than two kids per couple, and the parents focus their low-income resources on buying kids an education rather than Yeezy (or whatever that brand is called) sneakers.
Khan's Tutorial is a chain of Saturday schools. I've seen branches in Queens. There are lots of Saturday schools throughout the city run by people from all different nationalities.
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Old 04-03-2019, 10:14 AM
 
Location: In the heights
36,957 posts, read 38,947,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gantz View Post
Wait till these people find out that Jews in their yeshivas don't even study secular subjects full time after elementary school. Most state exams like regents are deemed easy enough that they switch their curriculum a year out, and children are expected to study the whole curriculum in that one school year.
In Israel, they don't even teach math, science, literature, etc from years 14-17 to boys especially, but they learn everything from 17-18 for the exams. In those 14-17, they learn reading, debate, reasoning, critical thinking, religious texts, etc. but not anything that is standard fact memorization.
Eh, at least a few of the yeshivas in Brooklyn don't produce great results especially for some that leave for the secular world at some point. I get your point about critical thinking in general.
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Old 04-03-2019, 11:11 AM
 
1,486 posts, read 976,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elnrgby View Post
The drive to want it? If a kid has a drive to want an education, he/she will demonstrate it by studying and acing tests. How else does a kid demonstrate "a drive to want an education"? Standardized tests were invented specifically for the purpose to eliminate every bias from student evaluation, and judge the student only on the basis of his/her knowledge of facts and his/her ability to make correct decisions based on these facts.


Bear in mind that these specialized high school admission tests are not the first tests the kids are facing. They have been in school for 8 years already, and have (or have not) gradually attained cognitive skills they need to pass this test. The educational process that gets a student into a specialized high school (or later into a college, a professional school, and through the later career steps) is a long, looong process. One has to stay motivated and involved at every step. In Parkchester, the Bronx, a low income area, as you wait for the 6 train on the platform, you will see a smallish but still visible bright blue billboard advertisement for Khan's Tutoring Service. Based on the location of the ad and the surrounding circumstances, I have a feeling that Khan is an immigrant from a third world country (where, however, kids have an interest and motivation for STEM fields), and Khan's clients are kids from low-income families where there are two parents present in the family (not a single mother), there are no more than two kids per couple, and the parents focus their low-income resources on buying kids an education rather than Yeezy (or whatever that brand is called) sneakers.
So the parents are to blame?....
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Old 04-03-2019, 11:35 AM
 
8,224 posts, read 4,290,904 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoullessOne View Post
So the parents are to blame?....



Of course. Absolutely. No doubt about it. If one is not able to raise kids decently - due to poverty or any other reason - one should not have kids (I didn't have them because until my 40s I totally lacked resources to give a child what a child needs). Having a child you can't raise is an act of aggression against the society equal of robbing a bank, and it should be criminalized, not supported by extortion of tax money. Having a child you can't raise is also an act of neglect and abuse against the child.
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Old 04-03-2019, 11:39 AM
 
8,224 posts, read 4,290,904 times
Reputation: 11835
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatsquirrel View Post
Khan's Tutorial is a chain of Saturday schools. I've seen branches in Queens. There are lots of Saturday schools throughout the city run by people from all different nationalities.

But it is advertised in Parkchester, so obviously Khan thinks he has potential customers among Parkchester kids (and their parents). And I think Khan is right about it.


Edit: I just looked up Khan's Tutorial website. Their Parkchester location is the only one specifically listed in their main menu that you see up front when you search for KT. Most of the tutors are young people with South Asian names, and most of them have themselves gone to Stuyvesant or Bronx Science (including one of the young women on their teaching staff that is wearing a hijab).

Last edited by elnrgby; 04-03-2019 at 11:56 AM..
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Old 04-03-2019, 06:58 PM
 
105 posts, read 89,264 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoullessOne View Post
So the parents are to blame?....
Did you watch the documentary? The black mom incredulously said she didn't even know about the test... Seems like she need to be more involved.
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Old 04-04-2019, 08:02 AM
 
Location: New York City
19,061 posts, read 12,631,806 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoullessOne View Post
So the parents are to blame?....
Like many people I came to that conclusion years ago. Stupid parents raise stupid kids. You know, the ones that let their kids yell and run around public places without restraint, the ones that let them watch Dora instead of odd squad. And reading to their kids every night? HAH good luck with that
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Old 04-04-2019, 04:18 PM
 
1,486 posts, read 976,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elnrgby View Post
Of course. Absolutely. No doubt about it. If one is not able to raise kids decently - due to poverty or any other reason - one should not have kids (I didn't have them because until my 40s I totally lacked resources to give a child what a child needs). Having a child you can't raise is an act of aggression against the society equal of robbing a bank, and it should be criminalized, not supported by extortion of tax money. Having a child you can't raise is also an act of neglect and abuse against the child.
The parents cannot take 100% of the blame. The kids and the system they grew up in also takes a part in it. Ideally a parent should take a look at their life and say "i dont want my child to have to struggle as long as i did to get where i am so let me open doors for them and a child should look at their parents life and say "damn i see how hard my parents had to work to get where they are, let me try see if i can get to where they are in life at a younger age". But life isnt all perfect, fathers leave, die, and moms hoe around and end up with multiple baby daddys where they spend more time in court trying to work the system instead of bettering their lives.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dosun View Post
Did you watch the documentary? The black mom incredulously said she didn't even know about the test... Seems like she need to be more involved.
Sometimes parents cannot be 100% involved in their kids life due to life. For instance i came from a single parent household where my mom worked more than 12 hours a day to keep a roof over our head and put food on the table. She didnt have time to help with homework, or take part in my school activities so i was left to figure it out, and so i did. My mom also had no idea of these tests, and neither did i. Hell, the public school i went to didnt even prep us properly for the tests. I took the test unprepared and failed, went to my zone school and from there i said F this and steamrolled my way to 6 figures. One cannot expect someone to hold their hand their entire life but today's kids are screwed as now they have smart phones and social media. My day distractions were just jansport bookbags, timberlands boots, and northface coats. But compared to Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, fortnite, PUBG and online gaming they are F'd!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakeJones View Post
Like many people I came to that conclusion years ago. Stupid parents raise stupid kids. You know, the ones that let their kids yell and run around public places without restraint, the ones that let them watch Dora instead of odd squad. And reading to their kids every night? HAH good luck with that
True, but i guess its the era when they grep up. I grew up watching Anamancias, Hysteria, Bill Nye the Science guy, Magic School Bus and i learned more watching TV than i did going in school. But is all how kids apply what they learn, some just dont apply it and then end up walking around like the world owes them something even though they didnt put in the work to get it.


Side note.

Can you imagine if these top schools thew the entrance test out the window and just open the doors to let anyone attend, but with a clause of anyone whose GPA drops below a certain number will be kicked out. All of a sudden getting in wont matter but staying in will.
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