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Seems both OP and Elnrgby are silent now that my and Pierrepoint’s arguments are being confirmed.
The OP and I communicated a little bit via direct mail. There is no point in discussing the subject of this thread with people who are not physicians, and are clueless about physician training or lifestyle issues associated with it. Pierrepoint's arguments on this issue are not informed (as expected from someone who is not a physician), while your "arguments" are completely . The OP has been silent because he received the information he needed, and has much more important stuff to deal with right now (and for the next 7 years :-), while I have been silent because there is nothing to say on this subject to anyone except to the OP (or to other IMGs in his situation who might be having the same question). The NYC forum is in fact quite pathetic but one does get a bit "addicted" to it once one gets pulled into it even if one fully realizes its vapidity :-), an additional reason why I'll strive to remain silent on it in the future in general. CD Forum threads for every other city, to the extent I checked them out, are all better than NYC, and the only CD subforum that I find quite useful is Retirement (specifically, it has been very helpful to me in the past for some tax information).
You can't do a residency in FL or states near FL. Why did you pick NYC out of all places knowing how expensive it is?
I agree with Pierre and Shady. You need to rethink this and run the #s. At the end of day, YOU will be the one paying the bills and suffering the consequences. No one in this thread including elnrgby will share that burden. I would recommend taking all the advice given here and doing independent research (internet and maybe try to call someone at that hospital and get some feedback) on NYC, cost of living, quality of life, etc and then discuss it with the wife.
I am not sure that i would want to leave my family by themselves in another state. Who will be the man of the house? (out of sight out of mind goes both ways!) I also would not want to move my family to an area that i can't afford and will be struggling for money. (trust me! my parents struggle with money and it's not great seeing and realizing that as a child).
Mr. Ryu, the OP is a medical resident. To a young physician, there is nothing more important in life than taking care of patients and advancing his/her career - location of the hospital in a "bad area" is totally unimportant if the residency is good and reputable. Young physicians ALL go through the same story of a decade of miserable income, and (if they have a young family, as about 30% to 50% of them do) of managing family life while never having a chance to spend any time with their family (they leave for the hospital before kids wake up, and return after the kids are asleep. When I was a resident, I was on call three times a week, and when I was on call, typically worked for 36 continuous hours. The hours have been reduced in the last decade, but are still fairly horrible). The OP's story is NORMAL to anyone who has been in his situation and survived it. It is not rare for young married residents to live apart from their spouse/children, because it does not make much difference whether they live together or apart. Medical residents, particularly in surgical specialties, do NOTHING except their medical training for the 5 to 7 years that the training lasts after medical school. It is not unheard of IMGs (international medical graduates) keeping their spouse and kids ABROAD while they are pursuing the residency.
Incidentally, as a physician long past my training (ie, in my 40s), I spent 10-11 years with my late boyfriend who was a commercial pilot flying large trans-Atlantic jets, and we also did not have much time together on a regular basis. We technically lived on different continents :-). Yet, our relationship was exceptionally happy for all those years, and living apart actually contributed to emotional closeness and never-ending (okay, it obviously ended with his fatal heart attack...) thrill. For people totally absorbed in their career (which I certainly was myself before The Captain died), it is not at all bad to live apart from their spouses or significant others because such people are BUSY. All the time.
Some of the best residency training programs in trauma surgery are in hospitals located in the most horrible neighborhoods (and the hospital where the OP will be doing his residency is actually well regarded in medical circles for that kind of training), because you get to see every possible kind of stab and gunshot wound on a daily basis. Residents who train at such hospitals (not just the IMGs but the US medical graduates as well) routinely face the problem that they must live next to the hospital (because of the working hours), but also must worry about safety and education of their kids if they have them. Residents are poorly paid physicians but nevertheless physicians, and they are not going to send their kids to school just anywhere, let alone expose the kids to dangers of urban crime. The OP has mentioned a possibility of leaving the family in FL, which means that this IS an option for him, and you don't know what other financial resources he might have besides the $70k resident salary (he obviously has a wife and other family. Physicians rarely come from families that can't help them financially at all while they are in training. I was in a situation of complete self-reliance because I also happened to come from a bankrupt socialist country where nobody had anything and the country was sliding into a horrendous civil war - ie, my immigration was political in addition to being educational, and in those circumstances I had only my miserable finances to rely on, first the research stipend, then the resident salary. Which is why I didn't go in the direction of having a family, it would have been impossible in such a situation.... but obviously I had more problems in addition to the residency, financial and otherwise). Anyway, the OP's problems are not unusual, and are workable.
You truly need 100K between a family of four to live the "middle class" life here. If you have no family here, make it $125K for visits and similarly related expenses (shipping gifts, etc.). And I'm talking average neighborhood living. Nothing fancy.
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"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
You truly need 100K between a family of four to live the "middle class" life here. If you have no family here, make it $125K for visits and similarly related expenses (shipping gifts, etc.). And I'm talking average neighborhood living. Nothing fancy.
Seventh, you don't understand. The OP does not care about any of the stuff you are mentioning, no physician does. People who do important work care only about that important work, not about fanciness or shipping gifts or any other mickeymouse. He just needs a place to crash next to the hospital during the residency (because residency is not an ordinary job, but an all-consuming immersion in a specialized set of high-stakes skills, which does not allow for any other concerns or activities outside the hospital), while knowing that his family is safe somewhere and kids properly schooled.
There are lots of wonderful opportunities in the Bronx for those in the medical professions, and the OP may well be making a wise career choice accepting the residency he was offered. That said, I wouldn't remove the kids from their grandmothers. Let them stay in Florida. You'll need to focus on your residency and then you'll likely have a fellowship or permanent position far from NYC anyway.
Seventh, you don't understand. The OP does not care about any of the stuff you are mentioning, no physician does. People who do important work care only about that important work, not about fanciness or shipping gifts or any other mickeymouse. He just needs a place to crash next to the hospital during the residency (because residency is not an ordinary job, but an all-consuming immersion in a specialized set of high-stakes skills, which does not allow for any other concerns or activities outside the hospital), while knowing that his family is safe somewhere and kids properly schooled.
But you're still not getting it.
$70,000 is not going to ensure his family is safe somewhere and his kids are properly schooled. Are you sure you have stepped foot in NYC? Where is his entire family going to be safe if he's not only paying for an apartment in NYC but also a mortgage back home? He can't rub two pennies together in NYC.
PS I live in the Bronx and raised my kids here. It was a great place for them to grow up. NYC in general has so much available for kids to do, and we used our memberships to the Bronx Zoo and Botanical Gardens frequently, which are both within walking distance from where we live. You've got to do your research about schools and neighborhoods, but I'm sure you can find a place where your family will be happy.
The Bronx is actually my favorite borough after Queens. There are plenty of areas that I absolutely love in the Bronx. Kingsbridge, for example, is one of them and the area around Van Cortlandt Park South is probably my favorite area in all of NYC. I would not hesitate to raise children in certain parts of the Bronx.
That said, the OP is not being realistic and neither are you. He said himself he has to pay a mortgage in Florida and pay rent in NYC. Where, pray tell, is he going to afford housing for four in NYC on his soul-crushingly low salary after expenses and taxes?
The only areas he can afford are absolute ****holes. That's the point, not that he's going to the Bronx.
Seventh, you don't understand. The OP does not care about any of the stuff you are mentioning, no physician does. People who do important work care only about that important work, not about fanciness or shipping gifts or any other mickeymouse. He just needs a place to crash next to the hospital during the residency (because residency is not an ordinary job, but an all-consuming immersion in a specialized set of high-stakes skills, which does not allow for any other concerns or activities outside the hospital), while knowing that his family is safe somewhere and kids properly schooled.
Why are you speaking for the OP?? He can do that important work in FL or nearby states. There are good drama hospitals in every state.
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. The OP has been silent because he received the information he needed, and has much more important stuff to deal with right now (and for the next 7 years :-), while I have been silent because there is nothing to say on this subject to anyone except to the OP (or to other IMGs in his situation who might be having the same question). The NYC forum is in fact quite pathetic but one does get a bit "addicted" to it once one gets pulled into it even if one fully realizes its vapidity :-), an additional reason why I'll strive to remain silent on it in the future in general. CD Forum threads for every other city, to the extent I checked them out, are all better than NYC, and the only CD subforum that I find quite useful is Retirement (specifically, it has been very helpful to me in the past for some tax information).
