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The Bronx is actually my favorite borough after Queens. There are plenty of areas that I absolutely love in the Bronx. Kingsbridge, for example, is one of them and the area around Van Cortlandt Park South is probably my favorite area in all of NYC. I would not hesitate to raise children in certain parts of the Bronx.
That said, the OP is not being realistic and neither are you. He said himself he has to pay a mortgage in Florida and pay rent in NYC. Where, pray tell, is he going to afford housing for four in NYC on his soul-crushingly low salary after expenses and taxes?
The only areas he can afford are absolute ****holes. That's the point, not that he's going to the Bronx.
It's an entirely common situation that the salary of one parent isn't enough to support the entire family, both here and in the rest of the country. The difference with the OP is that it's temporary. So the wife will have to make a financial contribution for them not to go into debt, whether she stays here or in FL, although I'm sure she'll get paid more here.
I have a friend in Woodlawn who's paid someone to watch her kids for years because she says there's little afterschool available and no daycare. Before the kids went to school she had an all-day babysitter, and later paid another mother to pick up the kids after school and watch them 4 hours, which came to about $300/week. It's not unthinkable that the mom could find something similar. In neighborhoods with more daycares and afterschool activities, that type of situation is probably harder to find but it'll cost less for childcare if the wife is going to work 9-5.
What I don't understand all the advice for the OP to leave his family in FL. I'm sure that's not what we'd be hearing if the the person who started the thread was assumed to be female. It's one thing when parents separate from their children out of necessity, whether for divorce or some other unavoidable circumstance. In this case, there's not even a financial reason for him to leave his kids in FL. If he needs to live a little farther from the hospital, oh well. He made the kids and he has a responsibility to parent them. Does anyone really believe that he'll have the same level of involvement in the lives of his kids whether they live in FL or in the same home? Elnrgby, the relationship between boyfriend/girlfriend is very different than parent/child. The OP should research and at least make an informed decision about the possible negative effects that this separation could have on his kids. At the very least, his relationship with them will be changed forever.
The OP and I communicated a little bit via direct mail. There is no point in discussing the subject of this thread with people who are not physicians, and are clueless about physician training or lifestyle issues associated with it. Pierrepoint's arguments on this issue are not informed (as expected from someone who is not a physician), while your "arguments" are completely . The OP has been silent because he received the information he needed, and has much more important stuff to deal with right now (and for the next 7 years :-), while I have been silent because there is nothing to say on this subject to anyone except to the OP (or to other IMGs in his situation who might be having the same question). The NYC forum is in fact quite pathetic but one does get a bit "addicted" to it once one gets pulled into it even if one fully realizes its vapidity :-), an additional reason why I'll strive to remain silent on it in the future in general. CD Forum threads for every other city, to the extent I checked them out, are all better than NYC, and the only CD subforum that I find quite useful is Retirement (specifically, it has been very helpful to me in the past for some tax information).
In spite of all the shade you threw at the NYC forum, I always liked your post Elnrgby.
A very good friend's husband is a cardiologist who trained at St. Luke's/Manhattan so I actually know something about this. What you don't know is. . . what it's like to be a parent.
So I'll tell you.
For two years, my husband worked as a consultant. This meant he left on Sunday night or Monday mornings and returned home on Friday afternoons. Perfectly fine, if we didn't have children.
Once children are in the picture, everything changes. My daughter never adjusted to her father's schedule. She missed him terribly. I felt like a single mom - because I was a single mom. He manned up and changed jobs.
If this OP relocates to NYC without his family, he will see them significantly less than every weekend. He will see them less than a non custodial, divorced parent. BTW, seven years is practically his children's grammar school years.
Pierrepoint, Mr. Ryu and everyone else's arguments on this issue are exactly relevant. Very respectful and on point. If the OP had another source of income, he have been honest and said so.
As for:
Quote:
To a young physician, there is nothing more important in life than taking care of patients and advancing his/her career
It's nonsense and pretty selfish once he brought children into this world.
Quote:
The OP does not care about any of the stuff you are mentioning, no physician does. People who do important work care only about that important work, not about fanciness or shipping gifts or any other mickeymouse.
You have no idea how fast children outgrow clothing, how expenses their needs are, and how much mickeymouse stuff means to them.
"Physicians who married before medical school graduation had a higher divorce rate than those who waited until after graduation (33 percent versus 23 percent). Also, most physicians in the study were white males first married in the 1940s and 1950s when divorce was less socially acceptable"
Seventh, you don't understand. The OP does not care about any of the stuff you are mentioning, no physician does. People who do important work care only about that important work, not about fanciness or shipping gifts or any other mickeymouse. He just needs a place to crash next to the hospital during the residency (because residency is not an ordinary job, but an all-consuming immersion in a specialized set of high-stakes skills, which does not allow for any other concerns or activities outside the hospital), while knowing that his family is safe somewhere and kids properly schooled.
What is there not to understand about the cost of living here for a family of four?
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"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
OP, do you have any savings? Do you have a social safety network of some kind with your family?
If you're gungho on taking this, because it will eventually mean much higher earning potential in the future and your family is willing to live really lean and cram into small apartments, then you can make it work in the same sense that immigrant families with little to their name come here and make it work. No one here knows what exactly your spending habits are, but do not expect a standard middle class US lifestyle for better or worse.
You're not going to get the pick of the litter with your commute time, job type, and budget. I think reasonable neighborhood suggestions, though not favorite neighborhood of some posters here, are Bedford Park and Norwood. You've got multiple options for getting to work within 30 minutes from there, and while they aren't fancy neighborhoods at all, they hit a decent baseline safety and are fairly cheap for what you get compared to other NYC neighborhoods.
You will almost certainly want to get rid of the car even though it is convenient with a family. That's an extra cost you can't really afford and the neighborhoods within a 30 minute commute of your workplace are likely going to have a decent level of mass transit that will be much more than anything you can expect in Florida. The only situation where I think you might consider keeping the car is if it's somehow already or mostly paid off, very fuel-efficient, and new enough and in good enough condition to be on rideshare services and your spouse is willing and able to make money through that (I mean these as in all of these conditions simultaneously).
I'm on the side that if there are not better options, then this is doable if you are realistic in how frugal you will need to be. There are definitely families of four that are living frugally within the OP's budget range within NY and not in complete misery and the OP has two likely advantages in that his occupation likely offers decent healthcare coverage for his family (children are walking petri dishes) and that putting lean years in now has a pretty decent chance of a much larger payoff at the end of his residency.
You really need to be in that frugal living mentality though with little room for thinking about mental duress or discomfort. We're talking about fully accepting a maximum of a two-bedroom apartment but also considering a one bedroom and not putting up a fuss about it, no grand vacation trips with the family, eating almost exclusively home-cooked meals, etc. If you and your family can countenance such, and many, many families do, then yea, maybe this will work.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 06-13-2019 at 09:13 AM..
OP, do you have any savings? Do you have a social safety network of some kind with your family?
If you're gungho on taking this, because it will eventually mean much higher earning potential in the future and your family is willing to live really lean and cram into small apartments, then you can make it work in the same sense that immigrant families with little to their name come here and make it work. No one here knows what exactly your spending habits are, but do not expect a standard middle class US lifestyle for better or worse.
You're not going to get the pick of the litter with your commute time, job type, and budget. I think reasonable neighborhood suggestions, though not favorite neighborhood of some posters here, are Bedford Park and Norwood. You've got multiple options for getting to work within 30 minutes from there, and while they aren't fancy neighborhoods at all, they hit a decent baseline safety and are fairly cheap for what you get compared to other NYC neighborhoods.
You will almost certainly want to get rid of the car even though it is convenient with a family. That's an extra cost you can't really afford and the neighborhoods within a 30 minute commute of your workplace are likely going to have a decent level of mass transit that will be much more than anything you can expect in Florida. The only situation where I think you will keep the car is if it's somehow already or mostly paid off, very fuel-efficient, and new enough and in good enough condition to be on rideshare services and your spouse is willing and able to make money through that.
I'm on the side that if there are not better options, then this is doable if you are realistic in how frugal you will need to be. There are definitely families of four that are living frugally within the OP's budget range within NY and not in complete misery and the OP has two likely advantages in that his occupation likely offers decent healthcare coverage for his family (children are walking petri dishes) and that putting lean years in now has a pretty decent chance of a much larger payoff at the end of his residency.
You really need to be in that frugal living mentality though with little room for thinking about mental duress or discomfort. We're talking about fully accepting a maximum of a two-bedroom apartment but also considering a one bedroom and not putting up a fuss about it, no grand vacation trips with the family, eating almost exclusively home-cooked meals, etc. If you and your family can countenance such, and many, many families do, then yea, maybe this will work.
One school I'd look into is AmPark (https://insideschools.org/school/10X344) if living in Bedford Park (which is where we live) but priority is Van Cortland Village, which is another area that I really like. Woodlawn has a pretty good neighborhood school https://insideschools.org/school/11X019 and a couple in Riverdale are highly rated, but that's farther and more expensive probably. I don't know anything about Pelham Parkway schools, but it's another neighborhood I'd consider.
I think the OP should look into getting a car especially if he's working crazy hours. Street parking is tough all over the BX though. I think he could find it if he's getting home at normal work hours (which seems unlikely) so he'd probably need to pay for parking. Not ideal, but again, I think the wife should seek to provide income too.
I think the OP should look into getting a car especially if he's working crazy hours. Street parking is tough all over the BX though. I think he could find it if he's getting home at normal work hours (which seems unlikely) so he'd probably need to pay for parking. Not ideal, but again, I think the wife should seek to provide income too.
Maybe--the average full cost of owning a car versus transit cards for two people in NYC is a few to several thousands more a year which is pretty hard to swing by with the OP's budget when NYC actually has commercial districts within walking distances in most cases and his workplace if in Bedford Park or Norwood would have multiple transit options to get to work in less than 30 minutes since it's multiple buses for a pretty short route, the B/D trains, or the 4 train. If the car's already paid off or nearly so and yet in acceptable condition to be accepted for rideshare services and the wife is willing to do that, then it's a different picture.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 06-13-2019 at 11:00 AM..
Maybe--the average full cost of owning a car versus transit cards for two people in NYC is a few to several thousands more a year which is pretty hard to swing by with the OP's budget when NYC actually has commercial districts within walking distances in most cases and his workplace if in Bedford Park or Norwood would have multiple transit options to get to work in less than 30 minutes since it's multiple buses for a pretty short route, the B/D trains, or the 4 train. If the car's already paid off or nearly so and yet in acceptable condition to be accepted for rideshare services and the wife is willing to do that, then it's a different picture.
Also the Select bus or BX 41 is right up Webster is -- google says about 15min. The OP would have to look at the schedule and see how often it runs but due to parking a car may actually add to the commute rather than save time.
Also the Select bus or BX 41 is right up Webster is -- google says about 15min. The OP would have to look at the schedule and see how often it runs but due to parking a car may actually add to the commute rather than save time.
Right, and you can actually answer emails and do other random tasks if you're riding instead of driving. The biggest savings you get from the car is if you're frequently taking local daytrips or weekend trips (not too likely with the grueling resident hours and the budget), you're sending your kids to a further away private school (not likely with that budget), you have specific healthcare requirements that require you to frequently attend a specific far out facility not accessible by transit (OP hasn't mentioned such), or you're using to buy items in bulk for savings (not a great idea with limited space their budget will allow for rent and those savings alone are not going to get anywhere near the expenses of car ownership).
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. The OP has been silent because he received the information he needed, and has much more important stuff to deal with right now (and for the next 7 years :-), while I have been silent because there is nothing to say on this subject to anyone except to the OP (or to other IMGs in his situation who might be having the same question). The NYC forum is in fact quite pathetic but one does get a bit "addicted" to it once one gets pulled into it even if one fully realizes its vapidity :-), an additional reason why I'll strive to remain silent on it in the future in general. CD Forum threads for every other city, to the extent I checked them out, are all better than NYC, and the only CD subforum that I find quite useful is Retirement (specifically, it has been very helpful to me in the past for some tax information).
