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Old Yesterday, 08:21 AM
 
395 posts, read 149,510 times
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Manhatan is the city, and includes Harlem
when you are in Harlem and you are going to lower Manhattan you say "i am going down town" not to "the city".
if you are in Brooklyn, Queens ect, and you are going to Manhattan you say " i am going to the city"

Only the South Bronx gets to say "going downtown" when going to lower Manhattan.

The Issue has its origins int he very foundation of the city, Harlem and New York were two different towns, both located in Manhattan.
thats why people call the City to everything below 110st as thats where the old border was.
the city truly means NY city, on its original boundaries. (bellow 110st).

then NYC county was founded and it absorbed Harlem. The street grid extended north made Harlem part of the city.
the main reason Harlem has kept a character different from lower Manhattan has been its zoning. Harlem avoided being developed with skyscrapers for all its history.
But the new zoning of both East and West Harlem will soon put an end to that.

Entering Harlem + tall buildings

Last edited by upthere22; Yesterday at 08:34 AM..
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Old Yesterday, 09:54 AM
 
1,195 posts, read 973,672 times
Reputation: 2204
Quote:
Originally Posted by stormgal View Post
Just a question - why is it that every other transplant says, "I'm going to the city" - meaning when they come into Manhattan from let's say, Brooklyn? As I understand it, "The City" is all five boroughs not just Manhattan.

Someone - who's not even from the US was actually telling me that, "the city" is only Manhattan. I disagree, and I'd never say, "Im leaving the city" when I go to Brooklyn, the Bronx or Queens.

As far back as the 1970s, my friends and I, who lived in Queens, would say "going to the city" to mean Manhattan.

In 1982, a Manhattanite asked me, "Why do people in the outer boroughs say 'going to the city' when they live in the city too?" That's when I first noticed the term "going to the city," though I'd long been using it.

Later, in 1983, I first heard the term BBQ, which Manhattanites used to refer to people from the Bronx, Brooklyn & Queens.

Anyone know if the term BBQ is still a thing?
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Old Yesterday, 10:14 AM
 
72 posts, read 31,698 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by upthere22 View Post
Manhatan is the city, and includes Harlem
when you are in Harlem and you are going to lower Manhattan you say "i am going down town" not to "the city".
if you are in Brooklyn, Queens ect, and you are going to Manhattan you say " i am going to the city"

Only the South Bronx gets to say "going downtown" when going to lower Manhattan.

The Issue has its origins int he very foundation of the city, Harlem and New York were two different towns, both located in Manhattan.
thats why people call the City to everything below 110st as thats where the old border was.
the city truly means NY city, on its original boundaries. (bellow 110st).

then NYC county was founded and it absorbed Harlem. The street grid extended north made Harlem part of the city.
the main reason Harlem has kept a character different from lower Manhattan has been its zoning. Harlem avoided being developed with skyscrapers for all its history.
But the new zoning of both East and West Harlem will soon put an end to that.

Entering Harlem + tall buildings
that's a whole lotta history ... harlem was always apart of manhattan never needed to be absorbed into manhattan - unlike the bronx which was ceded by west chester to manhattan. harlem has its history in farming land that's was apart of the dutch trading post of the area. when manhattan incorporated into a city post the opening of the brooklyn bridge with a couple of other counties in late 19th century harlem wasn't a distinct entity that needed to be absorbed.

of course none of this explains the OPs initial question or why transplants are referring to manhattan as 'the city' when all five boroughs is the city.
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Old Yesterday, 10:22 AM
 
395 posts, read 149,510 times
Reputation: 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by HipHopSays View Post
that's a whole lotta history ... harlem was always apart of manhattan never needed to be absorbed into manhattan - unlike the bronx which was ceded by west chester to manhattan. harlem has its history in farming land that's was apart of the dutch trading post of the area. when manhattan incorporated into a city post the opening of the brooklyn bridge with a couple of other counties in late 19th century harlem wasn't a distinct entity that needed to be absorbed.

of course none of this explains the OPs initial question or why transplants are referring to manhattan as 'the city' when all five boroughs is the city.
Do you have reading comprehension issues? where does it says Harlem was absorbed into Manhattan?
you have to go back to middle school.

and Manhattan was never incorporated into a city, New York county was. there is no town of Manhattan.

New York county and Harlem existed as separated towns. the original Harlem was burned during the American revolution in the battle of haarlem hights. The town of New Harlem was recognized by the New York State Legislature in 1835 but shortly after that, NY county took the administrative duties of the whole island.

the border separating Harlem from NY are the same today, a diagonal line at around 96st on the west side and around 110st on the west.

you can still find markers signaling the distance pointing to NY from Harlem, in Harlem.
Attached Thumbnails
"Going into the city" expression-new-harlem.jpg   "Going into the city" expression-new-harlem-marker.jpg  

Last edited by upthere22; Yesterday at 10:48 AM..
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Old Yesterday, 11:42 AM
 
Location: New York, NY
1,177 posts, read 666,453 times
Reputation: 1743
Most people I know who have lived here a long time or are natives mean "going to the city" or "in the city" as Manhattan. Everything else they refer to as the borough name. My Long Island family members do the same thing too. When they take the train into Penn Station, it's "going to the city." When they drive in to see a Mets game, it's "going to Queens."
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Old Yesterday, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Middle of the Megalopolis
466 posts, read 516,236 times
Reputation: 451
I lived in SI many many moons ago.
As I recall, "going to the city" was an expression you heard every day.
Usually meant Manhattan, but could also mean Bronx, Brooklyn or Queens, aka The Four Unforgotten Boroughs, you know, that area where the subways run, not the SI Tooterville Trolley.
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Old Yesterday, 05:54 PM
 
20,943 posts, read 13,867,665 times
Reputation: 14555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinema Cat View Post
As far back as the 1970s, my friends and I, who lived in Queens, would say "going to the city" to mean Manhattan.

In 1982, a Manhattanite asked me, "Why do people in the outer boroughs say 'going to the city' when they live in the city too?" That's when I first noticed the term "going to the city," though I'd long been using it.

Later, in 1983, I first heard the term BBQ, which Manhattanites used to refer to people from the Bronx, Brooklyn & Queens.

Anyone know if the term BBQ is still a thing?
Only time hear "BBQ" is in reference to restaurant of that name.
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Old Yesterday, 05:56 PM
 
Location: Confines of the 101 Precinct
19,694 posts, read 34,801,446 times
Reputation: 8454
Quote:
Originally Posted by HipHopSays View Post
that's a whole lotta history ... harlem was always apart of manhattan never needed to be absorbed into manhattan - unlike the bronx which was ceded by west chester to manhattan. harlem has its history in farming land that's was apart of the dutch trading post of the area. when manhattan incorporated into a city post the opening of the brooklyn bridge with a couple of other counties in late 19th century harlem wasn't a distinct entity that needed to be absorbed.

of course none of this explains the OPs initial question or why transplants are referring to manhattan as 'the city' when all five boroughs is the city.
It actually does man

NYC used to only be Manhattan, hence "the city"

Back in the day when people said they were going to the city, they really meant it

Nowadays the saying is just an old Vestige.
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Old Today, 09:02 PM
Status: "You picked the wrong fool, fool." (set 22 days ago)
 
612 posts, read 169,759 times
Reputation: 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by stormgal View Post
Just a question - why is it that every other transplant says, "I'm going to the city" - meaning when they come into Manhattan from let's say, Brooklyn? As I understand it, "The City" is all five boroughs not just Manhattan.

Someone - who's not even from the US was actually telling me that, "the city" is only Manhattan. I disagree, and I'd never say, "Im leaving the city" when I go to Brooklyn, the Bronx or Queens.
Of course you wouldnt say "I'm leaving the city" when you leave Manhattan, but it works perfectly well going into Manhattan. It's one of those things that only works one way.
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