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Old 07-24-2019, 09:26 AM
 
873 posts, read 876,614 times
Reputation: 1326

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henna View Post
But the topic is how did AOC win (and not about Crowley), and you have people saying, "AOC won because the people in her district like her." It's simply just not accurate.

I'm a case in point. I don't like her, and I didn't vote. I wasn't paying attention.

If you're not on board with the 2% figure, then read the next article i posted from the NY Post which is more balanced with its presentation of the numbers.
I don’t think there is any representative or politician in office for that matter, Democrat nor republican, that has the support of every single person in their district (or state, or city, etc.) You are a constituent of AOc who clearly does not support her. But that is not the point here.

Primary turn out is always low. That wasn’t something special in this election. The fact that one of the highest ranking Democrats couldn’t beat AOC says more about the lack of support Joe Crowley had in the district than anything about AOC. Voters in district 14 voted for Crowley in general elections more because he had a D next to his name than any of his policies. He was an establishment candidate who was Originally put in powerby the queen’s democratic machine, not the Voters. There isn’t any evidence that a majority of district 14 would rather have him back than AOC.

In sum, no one can say everyone in her district supports AOC, but there isn’t any evidence that can show there is any true opposition to her in the District among voters.

Also, I would like to point out that most democratic politicians in queens are not elected at primaries. They are elected by the queen’s Democratic Party behind closed doors and then voted in by their influence/support/money and low voter Turnout. AOC may have won with a low voter turn out, but her win comes solely from the people, and not a few people behind closed doors.
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Old 07-24-2019, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Confines of the 101 Precinct
19,703 posts, read 34,818,276 times
Reputation: 8468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henna View Post
She won in Congressional District 14 of New York with only about 16,000 votes. The total population of District 14 is just under 700,000, which means that only a bit more than 2% of the district’s population voted for her.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/impress...tes-1532444133
Why are you posting opinion articles? Please fact check. AOC got over 110,00 votes:

https://www.nytimes.com/elections/re...377DF5&gwt=pay

https://www.politico.com/election-re...2018/new-york/
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Old 07-24-2019, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Confines of the 101 Precinct
19,703 posts, read 34,818,276 times
Reputation: 8468
If people want to see what AOC is really about, start here and get some info

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/mem..._cortez/412804
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Old 07-24-2019, 09:56 AM
 
10,979 posts, read 9,388,061 times
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Most people slept through the primary (which is not unusual.) It was not expected to be competitive. Her campaign was able to get enough people off their a$$es and to the polls, while Crowley's campaign was asleep at the switch.

Next time around this will not be the case. The question is, will she have any real competition. I don't expect Crowley back. I just can't see a Republican getting any traction. Maybe the machine will run someone against her in the primary, but that has problems. She's now the darling of the left wing of the Democratic voter base, and not just in her district. These people don't have much use for the Democratic machine, and challenging AOC would further alienate them, and, again, not only in her district. This might keep some of them from getting out and voting for the machine candidates in other races in the general election. Also, at this point AOC has huge name recognition. Anyone they run against her is likely to be a nobody that no one has ever heard of. Maybe they could get a city councilcritter from the area to run. But likely anyone else in the primary would likely be a speed bump.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astorian31 View Post
I must admit, itís weird not being on the same side as you Henna, but youíre not being fair here. No one cared about low voter turnout anytime Joe Crowley won. Nor did they make conclusions about his support in the district based on low voter turnout. Itís only because AOC is not a corporate democratic that weíre seeing these attempts to downplay her win and her support in her community.

Plus, we also have to look at the demographics of her district. A third of district 13 is ineligible to vote as they are under 18. Half the district is also foreign born. Exact numbers would be hard to come by, iím willing to bet that means a good portion of the over 18 population is ineligible to vote as they are not citizens. Using the whole population of district 14 is disingenuous. None of this means that 16,000 votes is a good voter turnout, but in a safe Democrat district, what matters is that she got more votes than a high-ranking Democrat like Crowley in the primary.
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Old 07-24-2019, 10:01 AM
 
Location: In the heights
22,290 posts, read 23,786,025 times
Reputation: 11736
Quote:
Originally Posted by exm View Post
You can argue about if the tax breaks where necessary, and if jobs aren't created anyway. But for HER DISTRICT - LIC - it would have been a MAJOR boost.
Sure, I definitely argue that the tax breaks to the extent they were given were not necessary. I think they could have proceeded with the original plan even with just the as-of-right tax breaks as those were ample, but were at least not targeted towards the Amazon bid specifically and so were easier to argue.

Now, do I think LIC Amazon base was a bad idea? No as I think redistributing jobs within the borough a bit is a good idea though LIC is so close to Midtown that it's only somewhat better. I would have preferred it be located in Jamaica, but that's probably a pipe dream though if NJT and LIRR were through-running, I'd think at some point someone would realize that a Jamaica location is a great idea for a major corporate office.

Do I think a local boost would have happened around LIC with the original Amazon location? Yes, I think it would have boosted local businesses though not necessarily the ones already there. There are reasons why constituents of a district might be against something like this such as fear of being priced out, which would likely happen to some degree especially among renters and businesses that do not own their own space or do not have very long-term leases. However, people who do own would have likely greatly benefited though not all people who own property in the district live within the district. If there was actually a policy where people who live and work in their district that were likely to be displaced were given some kind of relocation support as part of the package, then I think that would have assuaged people a bit though that's a pretty tough sell.

I think you have a factual error there though with LIC and the bid location being in her district--it was not in her district. Her district does neighbor that district though, so the above fears of displacement probably worried some. She probably wouldn't have hurt from it much if it had actually happened as the general demographics of people who would be hired for such jobs at Amazon and may have been the gentrifying force drawn in from Amazon to her neighborhood had a decent chance of voting for her anyhow.

Regardless, poor decision-making by Cuomo's team, no?
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Old 07-24-2019, 10:07 AM
 
11,341 posts, read 21,826,726 times
Reputation: 8947
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
Why are you posting opinion articles? Please fact check. AOC got over 110,00 votes:

https://www.nytimes.com/elections/re...377DF5&gwt=pay

https://www.politico.com/election-re...2018/new-york/
The 16,000 refers to the primary. Sorry if that was confusing. Perhaps focus on the second article I posted from the NY Post. That appears to be more to the point.

In the Democratic primary election in New Yorkís 14th Congressional District, Ocasio-Cortez received 16,898 votes in her upset victory over Rep. Joseph Crowley, a 10-term congressman. Ocasio-Cortez secured 56.7% of the votes cast, and 4,018 more votes than Crowley, who got 12,880, or 43.3% of the vote.
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Old 07-24-2019, 10:23 AM
 
Location: In the heights
22,290 posts, read 23,786,025 times
Reputation: 11736
And regardless of whether or not you want her as a representative, it makes sense as a constituent to push for to advocate for the parts of her platform that you do agree with and are beneficial to you. If she wants to push the Green New Deal, then a large part of our emissions is for transportation. Her district and the city at large can benefit greatly in terms of access to jobs and reduce emissions if the Penn Station Access and general regional commuter rail integration were also pushed on a federal level.
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Old 07-24-2019, 12:38 PM
 
1,563 posts, read 1,059,231 times
Reputation: 3638
Crowley was Tom Manton's hand picked successor as chairman of the Queens Dem party and for his seat in the house.

Crowley was queens representative to the U.S. house of representatives for 20 years.
1999 to 2019.


He ran unopposed from 2006 until 2018 when AOC came upon the scene.

Crowley didn't expect opposition so he didn't put up much of a campaign.

He was blindsided by AOCs success in the primary.

His name was still on the ballot for the general election but he only received 7% of the vote.

Gregory Meeks is the new chairman of the Queens democratic party so it's up to him to either support AOCs reelection in 2020 or put up another dem candidate.
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Old 07-24-2019, 02:23 PM
exm
 
Location: Long Island, NY
2,136 posts, read 714,075 times
Reputation: 1370
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Sure, I definitely argue that the tax breaks to the extent they were given were not necessary. I think they could have proceeded with the original plan even with just the as-of-right tax breaks as those were ample, but were at least not targeted towards the Amazon bid specifically and so were easier to argue.

Now, do I think LIC Amazon base was a bad idea? No as I think redistributing jobs within the borough a bit is a good idea though LIC is so close to Midtown that it's only somewhat better. I would have preferred it be located in Jamaica, but that's probably a pipe dream though if NJT and LIRR were through-running, I'd think at some point someone would realize that a Jamaica location is a great idea for a major corporate office.

Do I think a local boost would have happened around LIC with the original Amazon location? Yes, I think it would have boosted local businesses though not necessarily the ones already there. There are reasons why constituents of a district might be against something like this such as fear of being priced out, which would likely happen to some degree especially among renters and businesses that do not own their own space or do not have very long-term leases. However, people who do own would have likely greatly benefited though not all people who own property in the district live within the district. If there was actually a policy where people who live and work in their district that were likely to be displaced were given some kind of relocation support as part of the package, then I think that would have assuaged people a bit though that's a pretty tough sell.

I think you have a factual error there though with LIC and the bid location being in her district--it was not in her district. Her district does neighbor that district though, so the above fears of displacement probably worried some. She probably wouldn't have hurt from it much if it had actually happened as the general demographics of people who would be hired for such jobs at Amazon and may have been the gentrifying force drawn in from Amazon to her neighborhood had a decent chance of voting for her anyhow.

Regardless, poor decision-making by Cuomo's team, no?



Cuomo, the bully that he is, underestimated the power of the progressive left. Just like how Pelosi found out. I do absolutely agree Cuomo and Mayor Putz should have involved locals much earlier in the process but then again, the Amazon process itself was an utter mess.
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Old 07-24-2019, 02:48 PM
 
Location: In the heights
22,290 posts, read 23,786,025 times
Reputation: 11736
Quote:
Originally Posted by exm View Post
Cuomo, the bully that he is, underestimated the power of the progressive left. Just like how Pelosi found out. I do absolutely agree Cuomo and Mayor Putz should have involved locals much earlier in the process but then again, the Amazon process itself was an utter mess.
Yea, he didn’t just underestimate the progressive left—he was also pretty tone-deaf to how squeezed on housing costs people are and how Amazon coming here would have played into that. He should’ve involved people earlier and he never should have sold NYC short by giving more than as-of-right incentives. He probably should’ve made himself look like a great negotiator and get Amazon onboard for turning some of the as-of-right incentives to instead fund PILOT schemes for local infrastructure that Amazon would have still benefited from.
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