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Old Yesterday, 10:12 AM
Status: "Proud American, Always and Forever" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: DMV Area
11,967 posts, read 6,397,230 times
Reputation: 11751

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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Procedure 221-01 in the NYPD’s Patrol Guide states that a chokehold “shall include, but is not limited to, any pressure to the throat or windpipe, which may prevent or hinder breathing or reduce intake of air.” The medical examiner determined that neck compressions from the use of the maneuver lead to his death. The argument isn't about what a Brazilian jujitsu expert qualifies as a chokehold or what some other agency qualifies as a chokehold, but what his employer defines as a chokehold--i.e. it was a restriction placed on him by his job which is pretty much the argument for terminating his employment. You could have anyone call it any number of things, chokehold or not, but if it qualifies as a chokehold under the terms of his employment and he violated that term leading to someone's death, then it is grounds for termination.

Glad to know there are other Brazilian jujitsu fans on the board though! Community's really grown in the last several years!
Fair enough (though the medical examiner determined that neck compressions were partially to blame for the cause of death). In that sense, yes, there are grounds for termination, though I still don't support it given the facts of this case.
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Old Yesterday, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
8,837 posts, read 7,179,356 times
Reputation: 8370
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanMan2k5 View Post
Like usual the Advance posts a story after the event happens with no promotion prior to it happening. Turn out would have been MUCH bigger if they did. Also amazing they didn't didn't block traffic or cause chaos. Hmmm I wonder why.
The next one is tomorrow at Midland Beach.
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Old Yesterday, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
8,837 posts, read 7,179,356 times
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Pantaleo put his arm around him then pulled him to the ground and let go. His throat was not involved in the process.
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Old Yesterday, 11:22 AM
 
34 posts, read 18,775 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborneguy View Post
Pantaleo put his arm around him then pulled him to the ground and let go. His throat was not involved in the process.
Pantaleo put his arm around Garner’s neck then pulled him to the ground, laid on his back, shoved his head into the sidewalk as 3 more cops piled on top of him. There I fixed it for you.

You do know there’s a video of the incident that everyone has seen right?
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Old Yesterday, 11:38 AM
 
11,027 posts, read 9,418,427 times
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I have tried, and so far have not been able to find a copy of the actual autopsy report. I have a VERY hard time believing neck compression was the cause of death. Why? He was conscious and talking AFTER the so called chokehold, and after he was on the ground and cuffed. This of course is the famous "I can't breath" statement. If you can talk, you can in fact breath. I took CPR and this was part of the course. You never give CPR to someone who can talk, because they can still breath.

Now, obviously he was in some sort of escalating distress. Since he was obviously having trouble breathing, and was a previously diagnosed asthmatic, I consider it highly likely the stress of the arrest caused an asthma attack, which is what killed him.

There's a good reason there was never any criminal prosecution in this case. If there was, the defense would have had their own forensic pathologist go over the case, the the death by neck compression finding would get, well, crushed. It would get shown that the cause of death was Garner's own poor health.


Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Procedure 221-01 in the NYPD’s Patrol Guide states that a chokehold “shall include, but is not limited to, any pressure to the throat or windpipe, which may prevent or hinder breathing or reduce intake of air.” The medical examiner determined that neck compressions from the use of the maneuver lead to his death. The argument isn't about what a Brazilian jujitsu expert qualifies as a chokehold or what some other agency qualifies as a chokehold, but what his employer defines as a chokehold--i.e. it was a restriction placed on him by his job which is pretty much the argument for terminating his employment. You could have anyone call it any number of things, chokehold or not, but if it qualifies as a chokehold under the terms of his employment and he violated that term leading to someone's death, then it is grounds for termination.

Glad to know there are other Brazilian jujitsu fans on the board though! Community's really grown in the last several years!
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Old Yesterday, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
8,837 posts, read 7,179,356 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GriefOneNYC View Post
Pantaleo put his arm around Garner’s neck then pulled him to the ground, laid on his back, shoved his head into the sidewalk as 3 more cops piled on top of him. There I fixed it for you.

You do know there’s a video of the incident that everyone has seen right?
Good job, you just described practically every arrest of every person who resists arrest.
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Old Yesterday, 04:27 PM
 
34 posts, read 18,775 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborneguy View Post
Good job, you just described practically every arrest of every person who resists arrest.
Are you sure? Do you see the peoples names up there in my response? Because I actually just described one incident in particular which is what this thread is about.

But just to entertain you. How many of those other arrests that you are now referring to for some reason, involve an NYPD officer being found to use an illegal maneuver, as described in department policy, resulting in somebody’s death?

I’d still be shocked if panteleo lost his job but I guess we’ll all see what the comish thinks.
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Old Yesterday, 04:30 PM
 
21,097 posts, read 13,965,529 times
Reputation: 14696
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanMan2k5 View Post
Like usual the Advance posts a story after the event happens with no promotion prior to it happening. Turn out would have been MUCH bigger if they did. Also amazing they didn't didn't block traffic or cause chaos. Hmmm I wonder why.
Cannot read comments on SILive for this article, and the thing itself doesn't mention; but am willing to bet the thing was organized privately and media got heads up late.

As Airboneguy states the next is at Midland Beach so if you're not doing anything......
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Old Yesterday, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
8,837 posts, read 7,179,356 times
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Not many because most don’t involve a ticking time bomb, walking heart attack like Eric Garner.
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Old Today, 07:29 AM
 
3,593 posts, read 1,384,002 times
Reputation: 1613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborneguy View Post
Good luck to good citizens who deserve police protection. You’re no longer going to get it.
Guess what, there are thousands of good people out there who would feel blessed to be a police officer in NYC, make six figures, with great benefits who will serve the better then that cop. Let him get fired. It will be better for involved, police officers, citizens, everyone.
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