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Old 08-04-2019, 10:16 AM
 
3,580 posts, read 3,832,150 times
Reputation: 3343

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Panteleo should be forced to adopt Garners Kids and it should be turned into a sitcom on ABC.

Bet seriously... I've thought long and hard about the challenges of this one, and maybe we should consider.... TBS.

Vacancies in the schedule, after all.
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Old 08-04-2019, 10:25 AM
 
Location: New York, NY
2,742 posts, read 2,304,123 times
Reputation: 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarke of Mastic View Post
Me neither, but you clearly passionately support career criminals. Meanwhile there are kids out there that grew up underprivileged that just want to be able to make a difference by means of attaining a proper education, but for some odd reason these kids don't fit the agenda, yet Eric Garner does. Focus.
I do not support career criminals. I support due process in a court of law.
Your accusation that I support career criminals is as similar as those of people who said I support women getting raped just because I once said that Brett Kavanaugh deserves a fair trial.


I will always stand by my belief that Garner did not deserve to die for selling Lucy’s.
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Old 08-04-2019, 11:40 AM
 
Location: 20 years from now
5,570 posts, read 5,746,201 times
Reputation: 3516
Quote:
Originally Posted by stormgal View Post
I do not support career criminals. I support due process in a court of law.
Your accusation that I support career criminals is as similar as those of people who said I support women getting raped just because I once said that Brett Kavanaugh deserves a fair trial.


I will always stand by my belief that Garner did not deserve to die for selling Lucy’s.
He died from the heart attack. The loosies that he sold were subject to arrest according to the NYS penal law. Resisting arrest is also a crime according to the NYS penal law.

There IS NO SUCH THING AS A "ROUTINE ARREST"

Let me say that again: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A ROUTINE ARREST

Just like a car stop--the end result can be completely unpredictable.

I have seen people commit horrendous crimes and walk into handcuffs with NO PROBLEM. And I have witnessed criminals who have done very minor violations and put up a FIGHT for their lives.

You NEVER know what will happen in that moment.

Now, Ex-Chief Phillip Banks received a complaint from the local stores where Garner was 'hustling' his loosies, in front their stores and that he was undercutting their sales.

Banks most likely instructed the Inspector of the 120 pct, who then instructed his Captains, Lt's and Sgts to address it. They PURPOSELY sent Anti Crime units out there to address it.

NOT uniformed Patrolman or Community Affairs cops, they sent plain clothes Anti Crime Units to address it. Those are your HEAVY hitters. The ones who specifically address very specific VIOLENT ongoing crimes. They knew what they were doing when they sent them there.

Either way, Panteleo and other officers attempted to conduct a lawful arrest so that he could have a "fair trial." You can argue Pantelo's tactics all day--and that's fine. But the 'intent' in the use of his tactics were legal and his compliance with the patrol guide is debatable.

Garner brought this on himself and I would not have given his family a dime if I were running the city. He made more from disobeying the law than cops make in a lifetime enforcing it and protecting the public.

Last edited by itshim; 08-04-2019 at 12:02 PM..
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Old 08-04-2019, 02:01 PM
 
5 posts, read 690 times
Reputation: 17
I have no problem if they fire Panteleo. In fact, I wonder why he would even want to stay on the force to begin with. He can easily negotiate keeping his pension if he just retires early. I know tons of cops who have retired early w/pension.

As for Garner, you get what you sow...bro! I'm born/raised NYC and NEVER EVER would mouth off to a person with a gun...nor would I tell that person "oh no, not today." Or whatever the heck he said basically telling said armed man you ain't messing w/me today! I often hear about the "black conversation w/their kids." Here's the conversation the rest of us get:

Parent: Son
Kid: Yea dad
Parent: Do you want to die someday by a cop?
Kid: Hell no, dad.
Parent: Ok then. Follow these rules regardless of who you are or what a cops says.
Kid: What?
Parent: Never talk back to a cop. Keep your hands visible (always). Say yes sir, no sir. Obey his orders. Do not argue or debate. If you get arrested, we will figure it out son.

Thanks dad.
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Old 08-04-2019, 02:46 PM
 
Location: In the heights
22,371 posts, read 23,847,742 times
Reputation: 11778
His job came with training and restrictions and he screwed it up with pretty significant repercussions for the people involved. That's pretty good reason to fire him and that's with me absolutely believing that he did not mean to kill Eric Garner, but someone who screws up on their job to that extent generally doesn't get to keep it. Do I think death threats against him are completely unnecessary and also ****ty? Yes! Of course! That doesn't mean he didn't screw up against the training he was supposed to receive.
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Old 08-04-2019, 03:56 PM
Status: "Proud American, Always and Forever" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: DMV Area
11,967 posts, read 6,397,230 times
Reputation: 11746
Tragic and shameful recommendation. Its heartbreaking that Garner passed away, but this cop was just doing his job and broke no law.
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Old 08-04-2019, 05:12 PM
 
Location: In the heights
22,371 posts, read 23,847,742 times
Reputation: 11778
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
Tragic and shameful recommendation. Its heartbreaking that Garner passed away, but this cop was just doing his job and broke no law.
I believe that in the public sector, as in the private sector, if you have made a severe mistake in your job then it can and often should be grounds for termination of your employment. Employees in the public or private sector should be held accountable for the actions under their control.

This isn’t a conviction of homicide—it is a recommendation for termination of his employment on the grounds that he made a severe mistake, and one that cost not just the public he serves, but also reflects poorly on his employer which in the private sector would certainly be grounds for termination. The tactic he used was illegal and against his training—if he had actually learned his job properly as one generally expects from an employee, then he would not be in this situation. Many people employed in NYPD do their jobs properly and well. He did not.

Now if the argument is that he was neither informed of the illegality of his method by his employer nor properly trained by his supervisors, then it makes sense that he’s not the one whose job should be terminated, but those in charge of training him. I’m not aware if he has made such an argument though.
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Old 08-04-2019, 05:39 PM
 
2,113 posts, read 621,598 times
Reputation: 2996
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborneguy View Post
You know how cops see this one?

We see a barely there fight, 10 times LESS than the ones we’ve all been in before, where the perp unfortunately had major health issues that killed him, being blamed on the cop. So we know that now, it’s a crap shoot if we ever have to fight with a perp that we might get a ticking time bomb unhealthy mess and end up in the same situation. Since I am unwilling to risk that, I will never put my hands on someone again. Meaning if the guy who just robbed you says, “not today,” then its not today because your wallet is not worth my freedom. Same goes for worse crimes. Unless they hurt another cop or a family member of mine, I won’t dare risk losing my job so fools can call me a murderer. Who cares? I’m better protected for NOT doing my job!
A fat man standing on a street corner clearly with 30-40% body fat. Breathing hard just standing. Just because he's tall and large doesn't mean Strong or energetic.

Why can't NYPD afford just TEN Martial Arts classes for these chumps???

He was unarmed and unhealthy and NOT resisting physically. The definition of resistance needs to be clarified. If he had instantly mowed over 3 cops like a bull took 2 gunshots and kept trucking perhaps then a chokehold would be more than warranted

These cops today are weak and entitled. Granted they operate in challenging political times, if they took it upon themselves to train adequately they wouldn't be having all of this trouble, because they would understand how to subdue assailants without 1988 NFL dogpile antics and minimize risk and injury to themselves and suspects.

Instead of taking a Brazilian Jiujutsu regimen they choose to bull**** off duty at the bar getting drunk and talking ****. Pathetic.

I have family in law enforcement and none of them have these issues because instead of fraternizing with lazy bums on the job they went to the range, sought additional training outside and stayed in shape and took their jobs seriously.
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Old 08-04-2019, 05:46 PM
Status: "Proud American, Always and Forever" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: DMV Area
11,967 posts, read 6,397,230 times
Reputation: 11746
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
I believe that in the public sector, as in the private sector, if you have made a severe mistake in your job then it can and often should be grounds for termination of your employment. Employees in the public or private sector should be held accountable for the actions under their control.

This isn’t a conviction of homicide—it is a recommendation for termination of his employment on the grounds that he made a severe mistake, and one that cost not just the public he serves, but also reflects poorly on his employer which in the private sector would certainly be grounds for termination. The tactic he used was illegal and against his training—if he had actually learned his job properly as one generally expects from an employee, then he would not be in this situation. Many people employed in NYPD do their jobs properly and well. He did not.

Now if the argument is that he was neither informed of the illegality of his method by his employer nor properly trained by his supervisors, then it makes sense that he’s not the one whose job should be terminated, but those in charge of training him. I’m not aware if he has made such an argument though.
You know, I see and respect your opinion. And its one that I have in general, both for private and public sector employment. Indeed, a cop who engages in on the job sex in the back of his police car or who is unnecessarily rude to a citizen hasn't committed any crimes, per se. But they behaved in a manner that is inconsistent with the trust given to police officers.

In this case, however, the officer was dealing with a lawful arrest of a large man who refused to comply. The take down move and subsequent lawful efforts to control the suspect, which is done countless times by law enforcement officers, sadly led to the suspect's death. But I don't see how the officer did anything wrong that would rationally violate the trust given to police officers and public sector employees in general.
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Old 08-04-2019, 06:02 PM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
8,836 posts, read 7,179,356 times
Reputation: 8370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tencent View Post
A fat man standing on a street corner clearly with 30-40% body fat. Breathing hard just standing. Just because he's tall and large doesn't mean Strong or energetic.

Why can't NYPD afford just TEN Martial Arts classes for these chumps???

He was unarmed and unhealthy and NOT resisting physically. The definition of resistance needs to be clarified. If he had instantly mowed over 3 cops like a bull took 2 gunshots and kept trucking perhaps then a chokehold would be more than warranted

These cops today are weak and entitled. Granted they operate in challenging political times, if they took it upon themselves to train adequately they wouldn't be having all of this trouble, because they would understand how to subdue assailants without 1988 NFL dogpile antics and minimize risk and injury to themselves and suspects.

Instead of taking a Brazilian Jiujutsu regimen they choose to bull**** off duty at the bar getting drunk and talking ****. Pathetic.

I have family in law enforcement and none of them have these issues because instead of fraternizing with lazy bums on the job they went to the range, sought additional training outside and stayed in shape and took their jobs seriously.
I stay in shape and practice at the range extensively to protect me and my family, not to boost my job performance. My skill (or lack thereof) does not change the political climate which necessitates ensuring one engages in as little police work as possible.

Police work is 100% an afterthought now. The first, and only, priority of every cop should be how to best navigate a situation to protect THEMSELVES.
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