U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-22-2019, 03:50 AM
 
2,270 posts, read 2,077,212 times
Reputation: 1782

Advertisements

I was surprised he was charged with murder and not manslaughter, at least initially while the incident was being investigated. Voluntary manslaughter is defined as:

Quote:
Voluntary Manslaughter

Voluntary manslaughter is a homicide that occurs without pre-meditation but was intended. Often labeled as crimes of passion, voluntary manslaughter can be triggered by rage, jealousy, or other emotional action. For example, a person killed in a bar fight by provoking someone may be labeled voluntary manslaughter. However, if a person has malice for the person before the incident occurred, it may be prosecuted at the next level – second-degree murder.
https://patrickgriffinlaw.com/blog/m...ter-vs-murder/

It would seem the homeowner was triggered by rage so it sounds like voluntary manslaughter if he didn’t know the guy. So maybe there is more to the story than has been revealed and he knew the guy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-22-2019, 04:06 AM
 
73,599 posts, read 73,452,884 times
Reputation: 51202
first degree murder is 100% premeditated .2nd degree not so much ....

as long as it was intentional it can be 2nd degree murder ... it can be argued going after someone when they clearly were not a threat and beating them with an object is intentional .

as an example .

joe bumps in to frank ...frank becomes very angry and either shoots joe or beats him to death


frank could probably be convicted of second degree murder, because he killed joe intentionally.

A judge or jury is unlikely to conclude that the killing was premeditated, which would have elevated the shooting to first degree murder.

On the other hand, this wasn’t the kind of heat-of-passion killing that equals voluntary manslaughter. While frank might have been provoked in some sense, the circumstances weren’t so extreme to cause a reasonable person to lose control. voluntary manslaughter is usually along the lines of walking in to the house and catching your wife cheating , where a reasonable person would loose control in that situation .

Last edited by mathjak107; 09-22-2019 at 05:04 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-22-2019, 04:19 AM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
9,056 posts, read 7,316,749 times
Reputation: 8577
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxyknoxy View Post
Look at this wonderful member of society! What does he need to do to get locked up for life?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...utors-say.html
Commit a crime in a red state?
__________________
"No Copyrighted Material"

Need help? Click on this: >>> ToS, Mod List, Rules & FAQ's, Guide, CD Home page, How to Search
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-22-2019, 04:29 AM
Status: "Debate! Don't ban!!!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Between the Bays
10,773 posts, read 8,740,596 times
Reputation: 5178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Ryu View Post
Based on the "Black Lives Matter" placard that is on the door i am guessing that the homeowner is a black dude.
I see more white people from the suburbs living in Brooklyn with Black Lives Matter apparel than anyone else.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-22-2019, 04:34 AM
Status: "Debate! Don't ban!!!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Between the Bays
10,773 posts, read 8,740,596 times
Reputation: 5178
The homeowner probably assumed that the thief had his valuables in his pockets, and he wanted them back before they were gone forever. In doing so he hit him in a spot that killed him on impact. It is the thief's fault. He should not have ran off the homeowner's property with the homeowner's valuables.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-22-2019, 04:42 AM
 
73,599 posts, read 73,452,884 times
Reputation: 51202
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShirlMastic Beach View Post
The homeowner probably assumed that the thief had his valuables in his pockets, and he wanted them back before they were gone forever. In doing so he hit him in a spot that killed him on impact. It is the thief's fault. He should not have ran off the homeowner's property with the homeowner's valuables.
unfortunately that is not how the laws work , nor does self defense . you can't kill someone or maim them because they committed a petty larceny regardless .. even grand larceny is no reason in the eyes of the law. whoever escalates the incident is the new bad guy .

your honor , i only took a car radio , he threatened my life and shot me . that never ends well for the good guy
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-22-2019, 04:46 AM
Status: "Debate! Don't ban!!!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Between the Bays
10,773 posts, read 8,740,596 times
Reputation: 5178
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
unfortunately that is not how the laws work , nor does self defense . you can't kill someone or maim them because they committed a petty larceny regardless .. even grand larceny is no reason in the eyes of the law. whoever escalates the incident is the new bad guy .

your honor , i only took a car radio , he threatened my life and shot me . that never ends well for the good guy
Sounds like you must have been a witness to the event.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-22-2019, 05:00 AM
 
73,599 posts, read 73,452,884 times
Reputation: 51202
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShirlMastic Beach View Post
Sounds like you must have been a witness to the event.
actually years ago we had an issue with someone breaking in to cars in our community driveway in kew garden hills ... for weeks cars were hit at night and it got to the point i did not put a radio back in nor lock the doors .

i wanted to put a silent ringer on the car and nail the guy or guys .... but of course i would not do it without a weapon . after discussing it with some very knowledgeably people i decided that would be a bad idea ... unless they came at me with a weapon i would become the bad guy by threatening their lives and if things turned ugly even if i was cleared criminally you can loose every penny in a civil suit ...so the choice was do nothing in this case .... there was nothing left to take in the car . . it was hardly worth risking an escalation on principal .

Last edited by mathjak107; 09-22-2019 at 05:11 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-22-2019, 05:13 AM
Status: "Debate! Don't ban!!!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Between the Bays
10,773 posts, read 8,740,596 times
Reputation: 5178
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
actually years ago we had an issue with someone breaking in to cars in our community driveway in kew garden hills ... for weeks cars were hit at night and it got to the point i did not put a radio back in nor lock the doors .

i wanted to put a silent ringer on the car and nail the guy or guys .... but of course i would not do it without a weapon . after discussing it with some very knowledgeably people i decided that would be a bad idea ... unless they came at me with a weapon i would become the bad guy by threatening their lives and if things turned ugly even if i was cleared criminally you can loose every penny in a civil suit ...so the choice was do nothing in this case .... there was nothing left to take in the car . .
So you knew you wanted to kill someone in advance. That was not the case here. This sounds like it happened much faster with little time to think. The homeowner was scared.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-22-2019, 07:12 AM
 
73,599 posts, read 73,452,884 times
Reputation: 51202
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShirlMastic Beach View Post
So you knew you wanted to kill someone in advance. That was not the case here. This sounds like it happened much faster with little time to think. The homeowner was scared.
so i knew i wanted to kill someone in advance ??? are you nuts ????

no , the idea is simply to contain them safely for myself until the cops arrived . but if things escalate it is on the good guy and he then becomes the bad guy
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:




Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
View detailed profiles of:
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top