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Old Today, 10:07 AM
 
Location: New York, NY
2,829 posts, read 2,394,983 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bxlover View Post
If white teens and white males were equally stopped they might have found even more cocaine, opiods, and marijuana on them as well as firearms. But we won't know that because they didn't get stopped. For brown males the searching of them and finding drugs became a justification to search them. I would have agreed with supporters of the stop and frisk argument if as an adult in my forties, with a home, family, six figure job, sweater vest, tie, slacks didn't get treated like a criminal several times by NYPD.
It has always been my belief that the biggest criminals are clean cut white collar workers who steal people's 401ks, raise interest rates on credit cards and practice insider trading. Every other non-violent criminal is petty.
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Old Today, 10:12 AM
 
778 posts, read 264,402 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bxlover View Post
If white teens and white males were equally stopped they might have found even more cocaine, opiods, and marijuana on them as well as firearms. But we won't know that because they didn't get stopped. For brown males the searching of them and finding drugs became a justification to search them. I would have agreed with supporters of the stop and frisk argument if as an adult in my forties, with a home, family, six figure job, sweater vest, tie, slacks didn't get treated like a criminal several times by NYPD.
Anyone remember that boat that was owned by JPM Chase that was seized with over 20 tons of cocaine in Manhattan about 2 months back?? Yea me either....see how quickly that was swept under the rug

https://nypost.com/2019/07/10/cbp-of...ns-of-cocaine/
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Old Today, 10:22 AM
 
1,972 posts, read 719,909 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bxlover View Post
If white teens and white males were equally stopped they might have found even more cocaine, opiods, and marijuana on them as well as firearms. But we won't know that because they didn't get stopped. For brown males the searching of them and finding drugs became a justification to search them. I would have agreed with supporters of the stop and frisk argument if as an adult in my forties, with a home, family, six figure job, sweater vest, tie, slacks didn't get treated like a criminal several times by NYPD.

Get real. There is a violent offense involving a weapon in NYC every few days - and who are the perpetrators of these crimes? If all those white males carry illegal guns as you are fantasizing, how come they don't use those weapons, how come a perpetrator of shooting/stabbing/slashing in NYC is rarely a white male? White teens in elite private schools DO get routinely randomly (or non-randomly if there is a reason) tested for drugs. Certain medical staff with ready access to controlled substances get randomly tested for drugs all the time (I certainly do, and find it normal), as do some other people in professions of responsibility. What do you consider being "treated like a criminal"? Unless you were actually wrongfully arrested, you weren't treated like a criminal. Being under suspicion because you belong to the demographic group that commits the majority of local crimes is not the same as being treated like a criminal.
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Old Today, 10:24 AM
 
3,843 posts, read 1,463,757 times
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Soulless and Storm girl, nice posts. I get those who defend it especially if they are cops. I think good people who have been doing something they have been to trained to do have to defend it for their own sanity. They don't want to realize that what they did with the best of motives, might have been unfair and counter productive. Supporters of stop and frisk, yes the program did some good things, but it was not applied fairly, and caused a great deal of harm to people. Factor that in as well, please. Pretty please. .
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Old Today, 10:28 AM
 
1,972 posts, read 719,909 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stormgal View Post
It has always been my belief that the biggest criminals are clean cut white collar workers who steal people's 401ks, raise interest rates on credit cards and practice insider trading. Every other non-violent criminal is petty.

Why do you believe that? Because irrational negative beliefs about sucessful people make an unsucessful person feel better about himself/herself?
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Old Today, 10:29 AM
 
3,843 posts, read 1,463,757 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elnrgby View Post
Get real. There is a violent offense involving a weapon in NYC every few days - and who are the perpetrators of these crimes? If all those white males carry illegal guns as you are fantasizing, how come they don't use those weapons, how come a perpetrator of shooting/stabbing/slashing in NYC is rarely a white male? White teens in elite private schools DO get routinely randomly (or non-randomly if there is a reason) tested for drugs. Certain medical staff with ready access to controlled substances get randomly tested for drugs all the time (I certainly do, and find it normal), as do some other people in professions of responsibility. What do you consider being "treated like a criminal"? Unless you were actually wrongfully arrested, you weren't treated like a criminal. Being under suspicion because you belong to the demographic group that commits the majority of local crimes is not the same as being treated like a criminal.
I recall the justification for stop and frisk was first weapons, then it was drugs, then stop and frisk found parole violates, then it found people who had warrants, then it found people who don't pay child support and on and on. If you stopped whites, you would also find parole violaters, people with unpaid tickets, drugs, and so forth. Yada yada yada.

Last edited by bxlover; Today at 10:43 AM..
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Old Today, 10:44 AM
 
778 posts, read 264,402 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elnrgby View Post
Get real. There is a violent offense involving a weapon in NYC every few days - and who are the perpetrators of these crimes? If all those white males carry illegal guns as you are fantasizing, how come they don't use those weapons, how come a perpetrator of shooting/stabbing/slashing in NYC is rarely a white male? White teens in elite private schools DO get routinely randomly (or non-randomly if there is a reason) tested for drugs. Certain medical staff with ready access to controlled substances get randomly tested for drugs all the time (I certainly do, and find it normal), as do some other people in professions of responsibility. What do you consider being "treated like a criminal"? Unless you were actually wrongfully arrested, you weren't treated like a criminal. Being under suspicion because you belong to the demographic group that commits the majority of local crimes is not the same as being treated like a criminal.
Why do I believe that you would be happy if things return back to the days of Jim Crow laws

I don't see anyone painting all Catholics with the same brush even though their priests have a extensive history of molesting kids. So why is it ok to paint al blacks/ Hispanics with 1 brush because some of them commit crimes?

Post 9/11. a few Muslim extremists decide to commit a terrible act. next day all Muslimism are painted as terrorists.
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Old Today, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Confines of the 101 Precinct
20,341 posts, read 35,352,115 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elnrgby View Post
What is the difference between being questioned by security/police on private property vs. on the street? None at all. Profiling is not a "mistake" - not any more than betting on a certain possible outcome is a mistake. It is understood by any normal person that the result of profiling is always probabilistic - there is a much higher statistical chance that a member of group A is a criminal than a member of group B (if more than 90% of criminals are known to come from group A), but obviously more people from group A are still law-abiding than criminal.


Btw, I have been questioned on/off for 29 years before being given citizenship of the US, because of how I was born - I do not see anything unusual about that, and I entirely see why. I was fingerprinted about 4 or 5 times by the immigration authorities, and additionally about 10 times when I applied for various work contracts in government hospitals (btw, I got the contract every time) - I do not see amything unusual about that, and I entirely see why. I come from the same place and ethnicity from which a number of communists and perpetrators of crimes against humanity came - I personally am none of them, but am of the same ethnicity, and the reasons for suspicion by the US were totally obvious to me, as it should also be obvious to you why NYPD is suspicious of Black and Hispanic young males - seriously. It obviously does not mean that every Black and Hispanic young male in the Bronx carries a gun - but I am pretty sure (and you will have to agree with me if you are truthful) that more than 90% of people in the Bronx who carry unauthorized guns are Black and Hispanic young males. Who else would actually be carrying?? Police/security/immigration authorities search for law-breakers among the populations whose members usually break law - but it obviously does not mean that every member of that population is a law-breaker. Stopping and frisking does not mean an arrest. Everybody who flies on a commercial plane is stopped and scanned (and sometimes frisked and searched - I was just recently searched in detail because of a dry shampoo in the carry-on luggage that apparently triggered suspicion for something), even though only one out of several hundred million (or maybe billion) flyers might be a terrorist - should I complain about that? Obviously not - I am far happier to be searched than I would be if I boarded a plane with someone who is carrying a bomb. Likewise, I think anybody with a functioning brain should be happier to put up with stop-and-frisk than to put up with full-on gang warfare in his neighborhood.
The only way you would ever comprehend my point is if you would be able to experience what it would be like to walk around Black for a day. So you will never get it.
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Old Today, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Confines of the 101 Precinct
20,341 posts, read 35,352,115 times
Reputation: 8750
Quote:
Originally Posted by bxlover View Post
If white teens and white males were equally stopped they might have found even more cocaine, opiods, and marijuana on them as well as firearms. But we won't know that because they didn't get stopped. For brown males the searching of them and finding drugs became a justification to search them. I would have agreed with supporters of the stop and frisk argument if as an adult in my forties, with a home, family, six figure job, sweater vest, tie, slacks didn't get treated like a criminal several times by NYPD.
I know your brain works....
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Old Today, 10:49 AM
 
1,972 posts, read 719,909 times
Reputation: 2098
Quote:
Originally Posted by bxlover View Post
I recall the justification for stop and frisk was first weapons, then it was drugs, then stop and frisk found parole violates, then it found people who had warrants, then it found people who don't pay child support and on and on. If you stopped whites, you would also find parole violaters, people with unpaid tickets, drugs, and so forth. Yada yada yada.

You got that completely upside down. It is absolutely not true that the much higher reported crime rate among non-whites in NYC is the result of greater surveillance over the non-whites. Looking at the ACTUAL crimes committed in NYC, when police is called because an actual (not potential, but real) crime has been comitted - how often is the perpetrator white vs. how often non-white? Police extrapolates the risk of potential crime (and distributes theor patrols accordingly) based upon the incidents of actual crime, not the way around.
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