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Old Yesterday, 04:10 PM
 
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I find this happens a lot, from my point of view, but this was a really obvious example.

The perpetual primary discussion issue was whether or not there was an illegal choke-hold. It always seemed to me that a primary discussion might have been, why is the police expending so much manpower/force on someone selling loose cigarettes? And then there's the broader issue of whether ultimately a main reason for his death was his being overweight.
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Old Yesterday, 04:18 PM
 
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They were completely proper in going hard after minor crimes. This is a basic tenant of the "Broken Windows" policing strategy that worked spectacularly in NYC for twenty years. Take care of the minor crimes, and for a large part, that will take care of the major crimes also. The last thing the city needs in an "anything goes" attitude on the street.

As far a Garner, if he just calmed down and let the cops cuff him up, he'd have been out in a few hours with a disappearance ticket. And his primary cause of death was his own poor health.
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Old Yesterday, 04:23 PM
 
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It had a lot to do with Blaz’ anti smoking crusade. He jacked up cigarette taxes and told his enforcers to come down hard on the people who were trying to bypass or circumvent the tax. This is often overlooked in the Garner case. A very astute observation Cida. Needs to be addressed.
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Old Yesterday, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
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Swing by Tompkinsville Park anytime - even 12pm - and tell me that broken windows isn’t necessary there.
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Old Yesterday, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Gods country
5,674 posts, read 4,461,712 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cida View Post
I find this happens a lot, from my point of view, but this was a really obvious example.

The perpetual primary discussion issue was whether or not there was an illegal choke-hold. It always seemed to me that a primary discussion might have been, why is the police expending so much manpower/force on someone selling loose cigarettes? And then there's the broader issue of whether ultimately a main reason for his death was his being overweight.
The main cause of his death was his resisting arrest. If he would have complied he would have been out of jail before the arresting officers completed their paperwork. And hed be free to impregnate another baby momma.
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Old Today, 12:47 PM
 
1,208 posts, read 1,182,227 times
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From my perspective, including Eric Garner in any conversation about "unnecessary police brutality" does far more harm then it does good to the BLM movement's attempt to attract allies.

I consider myself a moderate. I'm a 40 year old straight white cis woman. I am sympathetic and empathetic to the struggles that minorities face in this country, even in 2019.

HOWEVER. Eric Garner was a career criminal, who had been arrested something like 30 times, and police were called to that location by the store owner. On top of that, he resisted arrest, and was a good 150 pounds overweight and in poor health. He is dead because of his own actions. Is it unfortunate that a human being died, and that Pantaleo used a restraint tactic that had been banned by the department. But when a criminal who you have been tasked with arresting is physically resisting you, and they outweigh you by that much, survival instincts are going to kick in.

Comparing Garner to say Philando Castile, makes me doubt your ability to actually asses the reality of a situation. And by doing so, they're alienating people who think like me. All people of color who die in police custody are not the same scenario, so let's not lump them in. Does America have a problem with this? Yes, we do. Is Eric Garner part of this problem? Not by my estimation.

This is an interesting topic, Cida. Thanks for posting.
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Old Today, 12:49 PM
 
2,230 posts, read 694,992 times
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I am also against NYC's ultra strict smoking laws. As long as Eric Garner wasn't harassing people, I don't think the cops should have went there in the first place.
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Old Today, 12:57 PM
 
614 posts, read 131,633 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBMW View Post
They were completely proper in going hard after minor crimes. This is a basic tenant of the "Broken Windows" policing strategy that worked spectacularly in NYC for twenty years. Take care of the minor crimes, and for a large part, that will take care of the major crimes also. The last thing the city needs in an "anything goes" attitude on the street.

As far a Garner, if he just calmed down and let the cops cuff him up, he'd have been out in a few hours with a disappearance ticket. And his primary cause of death was his own poor health.
Several studies have argued that many of the apparent successes of broken windows policing (such as New York City in the 1990s) were the result of other factors. Correlation is not causality. The crime rate went down in many places that did not have broken windows policing.

(Thacher, David (2004). "Order Maintenance Reconsidered: Moving beyond Strong Causal Reasoning" (PDF). Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology. 94 (2) )
http://scholarlycommons.law.northwes...2&context=jclc




Also see:
Broken Windows and Zero Tolerance: Policing Urban Crimes

C. R. Sridhar
Economic and Political Weekly
Vol. 41, No. 19 (May 13-19, 2006), pp. 1841-1843
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Old Today, 01:13 PM
 
Location: NY
4,438 posts, read 1,175,619 times
Reputation: 2599
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cida View Post
I find this happens a lot, from my point of view, but this was a really obvious example.

The perpetual primary discussion issue was whether or not there was an illegal choke-hold. It always seemed to me that a primary discussion might have been, why is the police expending so much manpower/force on someone selling loose cigarettes? And then there's the broader issue of whether ultimately a main reason for his death was his being overweight.
Opinion:
Anyone overweight has the propensity to be a health in distress ticking time bomb.
You could be at work, jogging,or singing in a church choir don't matter.
Adding a touch of criminality only draws officers to investigate
( Yes.....It is a criminal offense to sell loose cigarettes.)
and any slight resistance of arrest could end in a loss of life.

Aim of this Lesson: It not wise for Overweight people to commit crimes............
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Old Today, 01:34 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
5,899 posts, read 3,103,621 times
Reputation: 6950
Quote:
Originally Posted by Above Average Bear View Post
The main cause of his death was his resisting arrest. If he would have complied he would have been out of jail before the arresting officers completed their paperwork. And he’d be free to impregnate another baby momma.
To be raised by taxpayers because you know Eric wasn't going to.

Anyway, taxpayers ended paying his family for his death. He lives, we lose. He dies, we lose.
Isn't this system wonderful?
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