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Old 10-03-2019, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Confines of the 101 Precinct
20,403 posts, read 35,393,681 times
Reputation: 8777

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Quite simple. Because while the occupants pay a subsidized rate to live there, they do not pay a subsidized rate for services rendered.

Does the plumber charge a subsidized rate for repairs? Do the energy companies charge subsidized rates for NYCHA, Mitchell-Lama, and lottery apartments? No, they charge market rate.

Furthermore, the scale of the developments are not considered with cost of ongoing maintenance. It makes no sense to have entire high-rise buildings of people who are essentially paying at a discount to occupy, but must pay market rate for services. Smaller-scale buildings can be easier maintained. For example, any building over 6 stories in NYC must file a periodic facade inspection report or face penalties. Filing the report involves hiring an architect and thats just the beginning of it.

In NYC, subsidized housing is always playing a game of catch-up when it comes to maintenance because of this.

I just read an article today that stated NYCHA needs $3B to upgrade the life systems for every development.

Clearly this is not working.
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Old 10-03-2019, 07:17 PM
 
Location: Confines of the 101 Precinct
20,403 posts, read 35,393,681 times
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NYCHA was originally meant to warehouse the middle class, keep the economy up. Now it warehouses everybody, no wonder why they can't keep up

NYCHA should be limited to only 2 story housing like in Bushwick, Clason Point or the LES. Building high-rise NYCHA was a bad idea. Building anything subsidized over 2 stories is a bad idea.
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Old 10-03-2019, 07:45 PM
 
76 posts, read 49,198 times
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NYCHA did warehouse the middle and lower class. The projects used to be white. Those that used to lived there used the system as a stepping stone, not a career choice. Whites moved out, blacks moved in, more whites moved out, more blacks moved in and we have what we have today. Welfare state and the destruction of the black community didn't help. Voting democrat was apart of the deal.
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Old 10-03-2019, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Confines of the 101 Precinct
20,403 posts, read 35,393,681 times
Reputation: 8777
Quote:
Originally Posted by manimgarbage View Post
NYCHA did warehouse the middle and lower class. The projects used to be white. Those that used to lived there used the system as a stepping stone, not a career choice. Whites moved out, blacks moved in, more whites moved out, more blacks moved in and we have what we have today. Welfare state and the destruction of the black community didn't help. Voting democrat was apart of the deal.
Do you post on the Politics Forum?
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Old 10-04-2019, 01:18 PM
 
Location: NY
4,575 posts, read 1,202,337 times
Reputation: 2657
Quote:
Originally Posted by manimgarbage View Post
NYCHA did warehouse the middle and lower class. The projects used to be white. Those that used to lived there used the system as a stepping stone, not a career choice. Whites moved out, blacks moved in, more whites moved out, more blacks moved in and we have what we have today. Welfare state and the destruction of the black community didn't help. Voting democrat was apart of the deal.
Opinion: Who will be added as the next wave of public housing recipients? ....... Next......Next.......I hear crickets.
N.Y.C.H.A. is a Crash and Burn...........nuff said.
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Old 10-04-2019, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
3,860 posts, read 3,955,116 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
Quite simple. Because while the occupants pay a subsidized rate to live there, they do not pay a subsidized rate for services rendered.
Sure they do. Most of them do not pay market rate for maintenance, certainly not in NYCHA or lottery apartments. That's part of the reason why those buildings are poorly maintained, the residents do not care about the property they live in. Just like the taxpayer subsidizes the rents, they also subsidize all of the maintenance and bills (in the case of NYCHA). If you **** in an NYCHA elevator, you are not responsible for cleaning it up, the taxpayer is, unlike in a condo development where you'd be financially responsible yourself.
Private properties do not have to wait for some government official to allocate funds to fix their building, they just spend their own money to take care of their property. That's why government housing will always be crap no matter what economic system or what country. As far as plumbing/rehab/etc it costs the government about triple what you'd normally pay for the service, because the government has to abide by all kinds of oversight, rules, and regulations that a private citizen doesn't have to (following certain contracting procedures, auditing, insurance, prevailing wages, etc.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
Does the plumber charge a subsidized rate for repairs? Do the energy companies charge subsidized rates for NYCHA, Mitchell-Lama, and lottery apartments? No, they charge market rate.
This is false. Plumbers do not charge market rate for repairs, that is illegal in New York City. New York City bans its agencies from paying less than $106.20 per hour in wages & benefits to plumbers that are working as contractors. This is way higher than market rate. This is the law in New York, and companies will face steep fines or even criminal charges if they try to offer these services to the city for cheaper. I can assure you, market rates for plumbing services, excluding materials, is nowhere near $106 per hour...

Last edited by Gantz; 10-04-2019 at 01:49 PM..
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Old 10-04-2019, 07:32 PM
 
21,815 posts, read 14,492,379 times
Reputation: 15357
NYCHA is busted and broke; but blame lies squarely in lap of city government.

https://citylimits.org/2019/09/30/re...nycha-tenants/

https://ny.curbed.com/2019/10/1/2089...al-aid-society

Many other urban areas long moved away from "projects" type housing, but city not only has kept these places up, but doubled down on those bets by chasing out middle/working class residents, and instead filling units with formerly homeless, busted, broke and others who can barely afford the cheapest rents.

Federal law mandates project housing households pay no more than 30% of income towards rent. This means many are paying unbelievably low rents. This doesn't even touch he sweet deals on how NYCHA calculates income which allows Chinese/Asians and others who own property elsewhere in this country or other part of world to have those assets excluded from those calculations.

You can't get blood from a stone. When rent roll does not cover costs of multifamily housing money has to come from somewhere else.

For decades city has shortchanged NYCHA, this in face of decade after decade of decreased federal funding. So now you have the perpetual saviors of the busted/broke doing what they always do; demanding federal money to be flushed down the toilet known as NYCHA. https://www.thevillager.com/2019/10/...-improvements/

Here's the thing; federal government long ago realized public housing projects were a failure. Whatever their lofty goals post WWII things haven't worked out as planned. As such federal government long ago stopped providing funds for building new project housing, and has (again) been decreasing funding for existing units.

A good number of NYCHA buildings/complexes are past their useful life, busted, and really should be torn down. That or they will require *billions* in funding to remotely address the situation.

Given many NYCHA residents never had anything, nor know how to treat anything you have to wonder about wisdom of spending good money after bad. NYCHA building managers/workers will tell you that soon as something is fixed in a building or apartment, within months later it is busted again.
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Old 10-04-2019, 08:25 PM
 
338 posts, read 258,445 times
Reputation: 580
Some interesting stats on NYCHA at https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/nycha/do...2019_08-01.pdf


* NYCHA is home to 1 in 15 New Yorkers.
* 564,301 New Yorkers are served by NYCHA’s public housing and Section 8 programs.
* If NYCHA (public housing and Section 8) were a city, it would rank 32nd in population size in the United States, and is larger than Sacramento, Atlanta and Miami.
* NYCHA has 10,238 employees
* NYCHA is the largest landlord in the city


I have to wonder how much in total has been spent on this program over the years. With over 10k employees, this can't be cheap. So many young people calling for socialism, and I keep thinking to a large extent, we already have it.
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Old 10-04-2019, 08:41 PM
 
21,815 posts, read 14,492,379 times
Reputation: 15357
Quote:
Originally Posted by fluttereagle View Post
Some interesting stats on NYCHA at https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/nycha/do...2019_08-01.pdf


* NYCHA is home to 1 in 15 New Yorkers.
* 564,301 New Yorkers are served by NYCHA’s public housing and Section 8 programs.
* If NYCHA (public housing and Section 8) were a city, it would rank 32nd in population size in the United States, and is larger than Sacramento, Atlanta and Miami.
* NYCHA has 10,238 employees
* NYCHA is the largest landlord in the city


I have to wonder how much in total has been spent on this program over the years. With over 10k employees, this can't be cheap. So many young people calling for socialism, and I keep thinking to a large extent, we already have it.
If you know how to work it; NYCHA can be a sweet gig. Well for the city employee anyway.


https://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...u2e-story.html

https://therealdeal.com/2019/05/13/t...nor-last-year/

https://nypost.com/2019/06/25/lead-l...r-resignation/

https://nypost.com/2019/08/13/nychas...ng-95-million/
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Old 10-04-2019, 09:05 PM
 
Location: New York, NY
1,976 posts, read 1,352,657 times
Reputation: 2411
Why I avoid paying taxes as much as I can.
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