Sean Bell Trial (airport, eat, education)

[pdcnret]

Originally Posted by bbguy05

If they were choir boys with no criminal history, would it have made any difference? Would it have made any difference if there was a baby in the backseat of the car?

In your head, a cop does wrong it's okay. A citizen does wrong, it's not.

The sad thing is that you are right, cops can do whatever they want as long as its in the name of being a cop. Maybe I should become a cop and commit a few crimes, so I can get away with it.

Twisting words again. The criminal history has direct impact on their credibility on the witness stand. Again, read and understand the judge's decision. He faulted the credibility of a number of prosecution witnesses.

The law allows cops greater leeway in the use of deadly physical force than it does civilians. This has nothing to do with "getting away with it." It's all about the law. Always has been -- always will be. Cops are given an awesome amount of power and authority because they have an awesome job to do. The law recognizes this. You're just going to have to accept it.

And as far as "getting away with it", this is not over for the cops. They'll be involved in legal hassles over their actions for years to come. There were no winners here. A tragic situation --- but not criminal.

[bbguy05]

Originally Posted by pdcnret

Twisting words again. The criminal history has direct impact on their credibility on the witness stand. Again, read and understand the judge's decision. He faulted the credibility of a number of prosecution witnesses.

The law allows cops greater leeway in the use of deadly physical force than it does civilians. This has nothing to do with "getting away with it." It's all about the law. Always has been -- always will be. Cops are given an awesome amount of power and authority because they have an awesome job to do. The law recognizes this. You're just going to have to accept it.

And as far as "getting away with it", this is not over for the cops. They'll be involved in legal hassles over their actions for years to come. There were no winners here. A tragic situation --- but not criminal.

What world are you living in? The legal system is FAR from perfect. The laws are even further from being perfect. If your only argurment is "it's the law". Then please spare that for someone else. Those "laws" are created by the same people from the crooked justice system.

If you kill someone, you kill someone. They shot and killed an unarmed man, and showed no regard the the safety of those around. Like I said, cops get away with anything, as long as it's in the name of being a cop. Like YOU SAID "Cops are given an awesome amount of power and authority". The power and authority to kill without punishment.

Obviously you have some need on being RIGHT and everything you say is the truth and we all should accept it. I'm not going to accept that fact that they can kill and get away with it. Maybe you can, it is obvious you are content with it, but I'm not.

[pdcnret]

Originally Posted by bbguy05

What world are you living in? The legal system is FAR from perfect. The laws are even further from being perfect. If your only argurment is "it's the law". Then please spare that for someone else. Those "laws" are created by the same people from the crooked justice system.

If you kill someone, you kill someone. They shot and killed an unarmed man, and showed no regard the the safety of those around. Like I said, cops get away with anything, as long as it's in the name of being a cop. Like YOU SAID "Cops are given an awesome amount of power and authority". The power and authority to kill without punishment.

Obviously you have some need on being RIGHT and everything you say is the truth and we all should accept it. I'm not going to accept that fact that they can kill and get away with it. Maybe you can, it is obvious you are content with it, but I'm not.

Sounds to me like you've got a problem with cops. Perfect or not the law is the law. And cops have a lot of power under the law...including the power to take someone's life. And once again, because you're apparently not getting it, while this was a tragic event -- it wasn't criminal. And it won't be criminal no matter how hard you whine and stamp your feet. I'm not giving you my opinion -- I'm giving you fact. You're just going to have to deal with it.

[bbguy05]

Originally Posted by pdcnret

Sounds to me like you've got a problem with cops. Perfect or not the law is the law. And cops have a lot of power under the law...including the power to take someone's life. And once again, because you're apparently not getting it, while this was a tragic event -- it wasn't criminal. And it won't be criminal no matter how hard you whine and stamp your feet. I'm not giving you my opinion -- I'm giving you fact. You're just going to have to deal with it.

I have a problem with a group of people that can get away with murder. Your just going in circles. What you really say isn't fact because you have yet to provide any proof to what you say. All you spit out is "It's the law! It's the law! You're going have to deal with it! Read the judges this, read the judges that."

You were the hall monitor that got mad when someone broke a rule by drinking out of the water fountain when they weren't suppose too. Those days are over, so don't sit up here and try to prove everybody wrong. I will continue to believe what I believe, and know what I know. So you just deal with the fact that your OPINION doesn't matter to me.

So unless you can provide more than the same tired argument you have presented, please just move on.

[sean sean sean sean]

Originally Posted by bbguy05

I have a problem with a group of people that can get away with murder.

What's the bigger crime here, that an innocent man lost his life because of carelessness and fear or that this situation will legally be allowed to repeat itself? Whether it was one shot or one thousand, if someone is approaching me with a gun drawn I am getting the heck out of there...and I don't buy the police officer's testimony that they identified themselves for one minute. In the legal system there is no questioning an officers word, why not lie?

My solution - get better cops. Has anyone on here ever been pulled over? Have you ever talked to a police officer? We're not talking about people with Mensa level intellect, or even Regents Diploma level intellect. Maybe if these cops had half a brain they would have done their job properly and not had to unload a clip into this unfortunate soul. For the outrageous salary being a police officer commands, it's not so much to ask for them to at least do their job properly. Had they taken the time to say "hey, we're cops...would you mind stepping out of the vehicle?" instead of rolling up like some wild cowboys with guns drawn, I am entirely confident this man would still be alive today. The victims had no reason to run and even if they did they had to know there was little chance of escaping without a jail sentence. There's no other logical explanation other than that they felt their lives were in danger.

Also want to add that I don't think this is a racial issue at all, which is not to say that racial profiling (or even class profiling) isn't extremely rampant in New York, but I don't see where race becomes a factor in this situation whatsoever.

This is a real tragedy, I can't even imagine the pain Sean Bell's friends and relatives are dealing with.

[Shizzles]

No one here mentions that Sean Bell was trying to run them over with a car. Is the force used by the police "excessive", yes, it was. But cops are also human beings too. If I saw someone trying to run me over, I damn well would shoot at them.

And I have another question: When a young black man murders another young black man, no one protests. What's the difference between being shot by a cop and shot by a thug? Unless you count the drama factor of course

[pdcnret]

Originally Posted by bbguy05

I have a problem with a group of people that can get away with murder. Your just going in circles. What you really say isn't fact because you have yet to provide any proof to what you say. All you spit out is "It's the law! It's the law! You're going have to deal with it! Read the judges this, read the judges that."

You were the hall monitor that got mad when someone broke a rule by drinking out of the water fountain when they weren't suppose too. Those days are over, so don't sit up here and try to prove everybody wrong. I will continue to believe what I believe, and know what I know. So you just deal with the fact that your OPINION doesn't matter to me.

So unless you can provide more than the same tired argument you have presented, please just move on.

It's your ignorance of the law that keeps you from understanding my argument. Unfortunately, your OPINION does match the facts or the law and is therefore irrelevant in this case. Too bad.

[pdcnret]

Originally Posted by sean sean sean sean

What's the bigger crime here, that an innocent man lost his life because of carelessness and fear or that this situation will legally be allowed to repeat itself? Whether it was one shot or one thousand, if someone is approaching me with a gun drawn I am getting the heck out of there...and I don't buy the police officer's testimony that they identified themselves for one minute. In the legal system there is no questioning an officers word, why not lie?

My solution - get better cops. Has anyone on here ever been pulled over? Have you ever talked to a police officer? We're not talking about people with Mensa level intellect, or even Regents Diploma level intellect. Maybe if these cops had half a brain they would have done their job properly and not had to unload a clip into this unfortunate soul. For the outrageous salary being a police officer commands, it's not so much to ask for them to at least do their job properly. Had they taken the time to say "hey, we're cops...would you mind stepping out of the vehicle?" instead of rolling up like some wild cowboys with guns drawn, I am entirely confident this man would still be alive today. The victims had no reason to run and even if they did they had to know there was little chance of escaping without a jail sentence. There's no other logical explanation other than that they felt their lives were in danger.

Also want to add that I don't think this is a racial issue at all, which is not to say that racial profiling (or even class profiling) isn't extremely rampant in New York, but I don't see where race becomes a factor in this situation whatsoever.

This is a real tragedy, I can't even imagine the pain Sean Bell's friends and relatives are dealing with.

You're painting the police with a fairly broad brush -- and quite incorrectly. Most cops have college education, many on the graduate and post-graduate level. I'm willing to bet that a significant number of them have a better education than you do. Maybe it's the way you interact with them that provides such a bad experience for you.

And by the way, NYC cops don't make an outrageous salary. It's enough to barely survive in the NY metro area.

[pennylove76]

I really respect cops because I know they have a hard job. I also respect teachers in the same way. I also think that there are a lot of honest good cops out there just trying to do their job. Having said that, in every job we have a duty and expectation to do the job properly. If we do not do that job properly we face consequences. The outrage here is not strictly that this young man was shot by cops but in:

A) the way it was done.
B) the fact that despite the poor manner in which it was handled, there were no consequences.
C) the extremely excessive number of shots.

The outrage should here should be that this could happen to any of us, regardless of our gender or race. Think about the fact that 2 of the 3 young men survived. If the cops felt they were threatened enough to shoot, then at what point do they stop shooting? What ever happened to warning shots? If the number of shots had been reduced by as much as 50% then this young man may still be alive. Of course he could have been killed by the first shot also.

However, the point is with the amount of shots, it makes it seem as though the only thing on the agenda was to kill those men.

I try to think that the cup is usually half full not half empty. So my prayers are not only to the family of Sean Bell but to the family of the cops as well. I have to believe that they are also grieving and remorseful for the whole situation.

[pdcnret]

Originally Posted by pennylove76

I really respect cops because I know they have a hard job. I also respect teachers in the same way. I also think that there are a lot of honest good cops out there just trying to do their job. Having said that, in every job we have a duty and expectation to do the job properly. If we do not do that job properly we face consequences. The outrage here is not strictly that this young man was shot by cops but in:

A) the way it was done.
B) the fact that despite the poor manner in which it was handled, there were no consequences.
C) the extremely excessive number of shots.

The outrage should here should be that this could happen to any of us, regardless of our gender or race. Think about the fact that 2 of the 3 young men survived. If the cops felt they were threatened enough to shoot, then at what point do they stop shooting? What ever happened to warning shots? If the number of shots had been reduced by as much as 50% then this young man may still be alive. Of course he could have been killed by the first shot also.

However, the point is with the amount of shots, it makes it seem as though the only thing on the agenda was to kill those men.

I try to think that the cup is usually half full not half empty. So my prayers are not only to the family of Sean Bell but to the family of the cops as well. I have to believe that they are also grieving and remorseful for the whole situation.

A heartfelt, intelligent post ... but misinformed. There is no such thing as a warning shot -- that's television. And cops are taught to shoot until the the threat stops. Only the individual cop can say when he believes that he no longer feels threatened.

Everyone focuses on the number of shots. The number is irrelevant. If Bell was killed with a single shot would you be less outraged? Dead is dead. What everyone doesn't understand is that this isn't television. Your opinions are formed by the nonsense you watch on the screen. Cops don't always hit what they aim at, particular in the heat of battle. They don't count their shots. They don't shoot to wound or shoot the gun out a bad guy's hand.

Were there mistakes made? Yes. Were they criminal? No. Are the cops getting away with this? No. There will be other forms of sanction against them in other venues.