Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Well lets continue to celebrate Columbus bringing smallpox to the Americas, it doesn't really matter to me in the grand scheme of things. People need their things to cling onto.
You go ahead and do that. Sounds like that type of celebration might be fun for you.
I know! Everyone interested in celebrating that can dance around Marconi's statue in Hoboken! Woot!
Last edited by ComeCloser; 10-13-2021 at 10:52 AM..
This is just about taking something away from "the white people" and their "privilege". People think this is important to "white people" so they want to take it away.
The funny thing is, if we don't look up to Columbus, who will we look up to? Robert Mugabe? Nelson Mandela? Where South Africans today are poorer than during Apartheid? Maybe cultural icons like Nicki Minaj or Lil Nas X.
If you want to replace Columbus at least give people something to look up to. This is just about these symbols perceived to be important to white people so there's a movement to remove these symbols only because white people like them.
NEW YORK — An obscure city panel may vote to remove a statue of Thomas Jefferson from its place in the City Council chambers amid controversy over the Founding Father’s history as a slaveholder.
The city Public Design Commission will decide Monday whether to loan the statue to the City Historical Society, effectively ending its nearly two-century run in one of the city's most revered spots.
Esacni, do you think Columbus day should be a national holiday in the United States?
To do that is to place him in heroic status as if he intended to benefit Americans.
It seems arbitrary. One could go over a list of people in American history and pick one to make
a national holiday, some could also be involved in the early settlement.
And he wasn't even trying to benefit Italians. He was trying to find a shipping route to get spices, slaves and gold from South Asia but he accidentally found the Caribbean islands. His funding was by the King of Spain not for the glories of exploration, it was for the potential wealth that could be extracted and the Spanish monarchy getting a percentage.
This is out American hero ?? This is what we are expected to celebrate and have statues of?
And where did he establish a settlement? In the Dominican Republic which only lasted for 3 years !!
and called Isabella (named after the Queen of Spain)
Comparatively Jamestown was the first permanent European settlement in America starting in 1607
and lasting about 100 years. This was over a 100 years after Columbus
That could be a national holiday "Jamestown Day"
and New York could also have "Italian American Day" which is like what other groups have
Instead we are supposed to worship the a shipping route found by accident by a man trying to get rich and go back to Spain and supported by Spanish aristocrats, not even Italians
___________________________________
In his later years, Columbus demanded that the Spanish Crown give him 10 percent of all profits made in the new lands, as stipulated in the Capitulations of Santa Fe. Because he had been relieved of his duties as governor, the crown did not feel bound by that contract and his demands were rejected. After his death, his heirs sued the Crown for a part of the profits from trade with America, as well as other rewards. This led to a protracted series of legal disputes known as the pleitos colombinos ("Columbian lawsuits").
^^ I thought this great hero for America was motivated by the wonders of exploration
Last edited by jonbenson; 10-13-2021 at 05:55 PM..
Esacni, do you think Columbus day should be a national in the United States?
To do that is to place him in heroic status as if he intended to benefit Americans.
It seems arbitrary. One could go over a list of people in American history and pick one to make
a national holiday, some could also be involved in the early settlement.
And he wasn't even trying to benefit Italians. He was trying to find a shipping route to get spices, slaves and gold from South Asia but he accidentally found the Caribbean islands. His funding was by the King of Spain not for the glories of exploration, it was for the potential wealth that could be extracted and the Spanish monarchy getting a percentage.
This is out American hero ?? This is what we are expected to celebrate and have statues of?
And where did he establish a settlement? In the Dominican Republic which only lasted for 3 years !!
and called Isabella (named after the Queen of Spain)
Comparatively Jamestown was the first permanent European settlement in America starting in 1607
and lasting about 100 years. This was over a 100 years after Columbus
That could be a national holiday "Jamestown Day"
and New York could also have "Italian American Day" which is like what other groups have
Instead we are supposed to worship the a shipping route found by accident by a man trying to get rich and go back to Spain and supported by Spanish aristocrats, not even Italians
___________________________________
In his later years, Columbus demanded that the Spanish Crown give him 10 percent of all profits made in the new lands, as stipulated in the Capitulations of Santa Fe. Because he had been relieved of his duties as governor, the crown did not feel bound by that contract and his demands were rejected. After his death, his heirs sued the Crown for a part of the profits from trade with America, as well as other rewards. This led to a protracted series of legal disputes known as the pleitos colombinos ("Columbian lawsuits").
^^ I thought this great hero for America was motivated by the wonders of exploration
yes Columbus is an historical figure. In search of spice island in South Asia instead he found a shipping route by accident, landing in the Caribbean islands and returned to Europe after several trips
It wasn't until over 100 years that Europeans made their first settlement here
Do you think there should be a national holiday devoted to this man?
If we must have a national holiday dedicated to a particular man
shouldn't be someone who was more heroic to the American people
rather than someone who led to the death of 95% of the native population
on the island where he landed?
yes Columbus is an historical figure. In search of spice island in South Asia instead he found a shipping route by accident, landing in the Caribbean islands and returned to Europe after several trips
It wasn't until over 100 years that Europeans made their first settlement here
Do you think there should be a national holiday devoted to this man?
If we must have a national holiday dedicated to a particular man
shouldn't be someone who was more heroic to the American people
rather than someone who led to the death of 95% of the native population
on the island where he landed?
Look at the bolded. That's precisely why Columbus is a symbol of western expansion in the Americas.
You really don't get why Columbus was integral to Europe and America.
Read up on European history from about the 14th century through the 17th century.
Western/Central Europe + America accounts for ~50% of world GDP (before the rise of Asia /China this share was even higher) but only have ~15% of the worlds population. This wasn't always the case.
yes Columbus is an historical figure. In search of spice island in South Asia instead he found a shipping route by accident, landing in the Caribbean islands and returned to Europe after several trips
It wasn't until over 100 years that Europeans made their first settlement here
Do you think there should be a national holiday devoted to this man?
If we must have a national holiday dedicated to a particular man shouldn't be someone who was more heroic to the American people
rather than someone who led to the death of 95% of the native population
on the island where he landed?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esacni
Look at the bolded. That's precisely why Columbus is a symbol of western expansion in the Americas.
You really don't get why Columbus was integral to Europe and America.
Read up on European history from about the 14th century through the 17th century.
Western/Central Europe + America accounts for ~50% of world GDP but only have ~15% of the worlds population. This wasn't always the case.
Are you suggesting that we should celebrate the genocide of the native population of the Dominican Republic and Haiti (the whole island was called Hispaniola then) because the sugar industry and other cash crops were beneficial to white people in Europe?
Are you suggesting that we should celebrate the genocide of the native population of the Dominican Republic and Haiti (the whole island was called Hispaniola then) because the sugar industry and other cash crops were beneficial to white people in Europe?
The economic benefits came much later. Europe was still a relatively backward place back then. Columbus and his contemporaries made Europe (and in turn America) what it is today. They just didn't know it back then because their goals were much more modest and Europe was so backward.
Genocide? Hard to say. The world was and still.is a nasty place.
The economic benefits came much later. Europe was still a relatively backward place back then. Columbus and his contemporaries made Europe (and in turn America) what it is today. They just didn't know it back then because their goals were much more modest and Europe was so backward.
Genocide? Hard to say. The world was and still.is a nasty place.
But the topic here is a national holiday
Do we need Columbus Day in 2021?
The America of today supposed to be for everybody
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
