Soundview forever (Lawrence, Rose, Watson: neighborhood, schools, income)

[SuperMario]

Originally Posted by rlrl

I was reading about the Son Of Sam and that he was raised on Stratford Avenue(1105) until the late 60's when the family moved to Co-op City. The book described the neighborhood at that time "completely deteriorated, decayed and filth ridden".

Was this an accurate description, way back in the late 60's?

I know that's the section closest to hunts point

I was on Stratford ave a couple of blocks passed 174th (Bronx River PJ's)....and the area looked like blocks I would find in University Heights. Graffiti and word down bodegas and large buildings. An older Puerto Rican male I was with told me that he grew up in Stratford avenue and that it was rough. So I would imagine it being absolutely awful in the 70's-90's.

[leatherdragoness]

Originally Posted by SeventhFloor

if they legalized drugs then all the street pharmacists would be out of business, and take up a new racket. and how would you circumnavigate jobs that require drug tests if drugs were legalized. not to mention i have my theories regarding why the government would never do this. but thats another story.

That's a good point. The way I see it, if hard drugs were legalized, employers can still test employees for drugs or alcohol. Just about all workplaces forbid drinking on the job or showing up drunk, so I think we can look at hard drugs and the workplace the same way we look at booze. Unless the job involves nuclear weapons, nuclear energy, driving or operating heavy machinery, I don't think employees should be immediately fired for testing positive for hard drugs or alcohol if they are otherwise good workers. Now I'm against drugs and I'm not recommending cocaine, but some people are occasional cocaine users and it doesn't adversely effect their job performance or personal life. Similarly, most people who drink alcohol on a regular basis are not alcoholics.

[leatherdragoness]

Originally Posted by SuperMario

Puerto Ricans are majority white and most of them fill it out that way when doing surveys.

Dominicans fill out mostly mixed in contrast.

Yet, hispanics of all kinds are mixed. Most hispanics dont acknowledge their African heritage but embrace their spaniard heritage. I am like that myself.

Its no coincidence that the section of Soundview closest to Hunts Point is the worst part of the neighborhood. The eastern section is much better. But why did you choose Soundview out of all the bad neighborhoods in the Bronx? Most people are atracted to the south Bronx neighborhoods (everything up to Fordham on the western half). Just out of curiosity.

Supermario,

Thanks for the information. So much has already been written about the "South Bronx". I saw those TV programs about the prostitution epidemic in Hunts Point. The South Bronx will probably always remain notorious, and will probably always be closely observed, even though it has improved somewhat - yet much of it is still very poor and crime and drug ridden.

I dare say that of all the neighborhoods in the Bronx not considered officially "South Bronx", Soundview deserves to be considered a part of it, especially the western areas close to Hunts Point and West Farms. Soundview is and is not "South Bronx", it's like an enigma of a neighborhood.

Because Soundview is considered intermediary between the South Bronx and the better parts of the Bronx, it tends to get overlooked. Yet it was the murder capital of New York in 2002, and still ranks high up there. Since it isn't considered the official "South Bronx", it gets ignored, I think. All the worst areas of Soundview(Soundview Houses, Watson Avenue) are every bit as bad as Hunts Point or Mott Haven.

Soundview is more intriguing since it actually has a sizable middle class; the middle class is virtually non-existent in most of the South Bronx. This class interplay makes things more complicated and more interesting. On the north-east fringes of Soundview, there are also recent Arab, Indian, Pakistani and African immigrants. With the exception of incoming Dominicans and Mexicans, most South Bronx neighborhoods don't have as much diversity as Soundview. Soundview is also considered the birthplace of Hip-hop, and Parkchester borders it on the north-east. So there's a different ethnic and class dynamic to Soundview compared to most South Bronx neighborhoods.

So basically, Soundview is overall more interesting than say Hunt's Point or Mott Haven, both uniformly very poor areas. Because of how the PJs dominate Mott Haven, the gentrification will only advance so far, in my opinion. Those ranch houses in Morrisania on Charlotte Street are a positive development no doubt. However, they seem artificial, and they seem like isolated frontier outposts of suburban middle class civilization in a ghetto warzone. In contrast, the middle class areas of Soundview, of which ranch houses play little role, seem more "natural" and are extensions of the middle class areas of Castle Hill, and Parkchester, which in turn are connected to the middle class areas of Westchester, Throggs Neck and Pelham Bay. Soundview is where the middle class Bronx meets the ghetto.

Another difference is how a major highway(the Bruckner) actually runs through Soundview, rather than along the edge of the neighborhood and/or serving as a border as they often do in the South Bronx. The Bronx River Parkway also runs through the neighborhood and provides easy access to the north Bronx and the rich suburbs outside the city. These major roads might as well be referred to as "drug-ways", instead of highways, considering all the drug traffic coming in and out of Soundview and surrounding areas.

I just took a ride along Watson today. It didn't seem that bad really, but I'm sure it must be a lot worse at night considering the PJs and endless tenement apartments close to the El.

[quelinda]

Originally Posted by leatherdragoness

I just took a ride along Watson today. It didn't seem that bad really, but I'm sure it must be a lot worse at night considering the PJs and endless tenement apartments close to the El.

Surprise surprise! You didn't see anyone getting killed? You didn't see bands of thugs ready to pounce on people for their "loot"? HAHA Again, just cuz people are poor does not mean they're SAVAGES! Criminals keep things on the low, so you're not supposed to notice much when you're just passing through anyway. Nothing surprising there.. Oh yes, but do watch out for those frightening tenements and the people they are "harboring" HEHE.

[rlrl]

Soundview reminds me a bit of the outskirts of some other cities. I was in Savannah, Ga years ago driving on a street that hugged the perimeter of the waterfront and it was quiet and had projects and and very very small garden-style apartments, a lot of mixed housing and small bodegas. I immediately thought that it looked like parts of Soundview

[leatherdragoness]

Originally Posted by quelinda

Surprise surprise! You didn't see anyone getting killed? You didn't see bands of thugs ready to pounce on people for their "loot"? HAHA Again, just cuz people are poor does not mean they're SAVAGES! Criminals keep things on the low, so you're not supposed to notice much when you're just passing through anyway. Nothing surprising there.. Oh yes, but do watch out for those frightening tenements and the people they are "harboring" HEHE.

Actually, I did see this young guy standing on the corner of Watson and Elder Avenue picking his nose. This is always a very obvious sign that a person is a gang-member up to no good.

But don't worry, I'm no snitch!

[dachampizhere76]

I grew up in Soundview until I moved to Brooklyn in 1992 and it was bad back then although you had some nice areas. It varies from block to block. Back then Stratford between westchester and 172nd street was the drug block. You also had Bronx River with their stick up kids, Bronxdale with their foolishness (There was these 2 cats they were brothers from Bronxdale that used to rob people up and down the area) and then you had Watson avenue east of morrison which was all tore up. I miss the good ole days...

[Bronx-Rochester]

There are still alot of Sex Money Murder Bloods in the Soundview pjs

[SuperMario]

Originally Posted by dachampizhere76

I grew up in Soundview until I moved to Brooklyn in 1992 and it was bad back then although you had some nice areas. It varies from block to block. Back then Stratford between westchester and 172nd street was the drug block. You also had Bronx River with their stick up kids, Bronxdale with their foolishness (There was these 2 cats they were brothers from Bronxdale that used to rob people up and down the area) and then you had Watson avenue east of morrison which was all tore up. I miss the good ole days...

Thats exactly the block I was on. Still alot of drug activity.

[DjRey]

Thanks to all the new skool rappers glorifying the Blood gangs(The Game) in particular.A West Coast cultural street thing,has now become a nationwide phenomenon.I Remember being in the East Coast in like 92-93', and cats would laugh at the dudes that were in to gangs in NY. Funny how the tables turn.The style they used to mock,is now the style they choose to jock.