Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-27-2008, 12:13 PM
 
235 posts, read 1,083,788 times
Reputation: 69

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henna View Post
I believe that this downgrading and under-reporting is truly happening - I never said anything to the contrary.

But this thread was about statistics from a small part of 2008, compared to the same small part of 2007. My point is that pressure to keep numbers down did not magically start happening at the start of 2008 after never happening before. All the new info from SouthQueens in fact just backs that up.
This started around the late 90's, so comparing stats from today to the stats of the early 90's and earlier can be a misleading comparison. NOt so much with murders, but especially so with property crimes and robberies.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-27-2008, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 3,983,293 times
Reputation: 209
come on now..under-reporting crimes has been happening everywhere, and for way longer than the 90s..let's be real.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2008, 12:20 PM
 
235 posts, read 1,083,788 times
Reputation: 69
Quote:
SouthQueens, how can you possibly say that the current force is inadequate or somehow incapable of maintaining crime rates in this city. This crop of cops were the ones that presided over the record low crime rate of 2007..and 2008 is actually 3% LOWER than 2007's record low crime rate.
The cops of the 80's were the ones who lowered crime to the levels we have seen since 2000 until today. the cops of today are simply maintaining these levels. The cops of today COULD NOT do what those cops from the 80's did. They lack the experience and they lack the manpower. Narcotics in the late 90's consisted of a lot of 10+ yr vets, today, the avg. experience is much lower.

Narcotics today is staffed with about 1/2 the people it had in the late 90's. And there are shortages in patrol pct's all across the city. A new drug hitting the street today would wreak havoc in the city. The NYPD does not have the resources to blitz the streets with narcotics and Street Crime like they did when Rudy was first elected, Heck, the Street Crime Unit doesn't even exist anymore! This is exactly why guns have become more prevalent again in the city.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2008, 12:31 PM
 
235 posts, read 1,083,788 times
Reputation: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guywithacause View Post
come on now..under-reporting crimes has been happening everywhere, and for way longer than the 90s..let's be real.
Wrong! The pressure to downgrade crimes at the street level has been going on now for about 10 yrs. Before that, there was no Compstat to track the stats and to pressure the CO's over. Anyone who has been in the NYPD for over 10 yrs can tell you that in the late 90's the attitudes of CO's changed and they started keeping track of how many reports were generated for each category. It is VERY common in today's NYPD to hear CO's and LT's say things like "I can't carry another robbery" b/c they get berated at Compstat for increases in certain categories. It is NOT uncommon for the classifications of reports to be held up a few days until AFTER Compstat, so they don't have to explain the increase. They'll carry it on the next quarter or month in the hopes that next month's "numbers" are lower and therefore provide some room for the extra robbery form the previous quarter.

This wasn't done before Compstat because before Compstat there was no monthly or quarterly meetings where the Capt. gets his head chewed off while standing on a podium in front of his peers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2008, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 3,983,293 times
Reputation: 209
Funny..they are "simply maintaining these levels". Who knew simply maintaining record low crime rates in NYC was such a breeze! Your ill regard and dismissal for the hard work, committment, dedication, of the officers that put their life on the line for you has been noted. Apparently cops have it very easy these days...and are just walking around aimlessly, and hanging out with friends.

You continue to undermine (fruitlessly I might add) the police force, the city, and the residents of NYC. The reason why crime rates ARE STILL FALLING is because of the cops of yesterday AND today..why do you continue to poo poo these cops? It's embarassing and shameful really. With all the drugs today, the rampant poverty, and the host of societal ills that the city suffers from, these cops are STILL maintaining, AND DECREASING, crime rates in NYC, not "simply maintaining" anything.

You can list cops are down to 10,000 people, but when crimes keeps falling...and the city continues to become better...why not applaud instead of demean, bemoan, and attack? It's sick.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2008, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 3,983,293 times
Reputation: 209
I do not doubt that the "pressure" was there to downgrade crimes, the point is..this downgrading is nothing new or unique to recent history..it has been happening for decades...it was just more "pressured" as the city was trying to change its image and clean up the place.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2008, 12:39 PM
 
235 posts, read 1,083,788 times
Reputation: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guywithacause View Post
I do not doubt that the "pressure" was there to downgrade crimes, the point is..this downgrading is nothing new or unique to recent history..it has been happening for decades...it was just more "pressured" as the city was trying to change its image and clean up the place.
No, it's been happening in the NYPD for A decade.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2008, 12:49 PM
 
235 posts, read 1,083,788 times
Reputation: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guywithacause View Post
Funny..they are "simply maintaining these levels". Who knew simply maintaining record low crime rates in NYC was such a breeze! Your ill regard and dismissal for the hard work, committment, dedication, of the officers that put their life on the line for you has been noted. Apparently cops have it very easy these days...and are just walking around aimlessly, and hanging out with friends.

You continue to undermine (fruitlessly I might add) the police force, the city, and the residents of NYC. The reason why crime rates ARE STILL FALLING is because of the cops of yesterday AND today..why do you continue to poo poo these cops? It's embarassing and shameful really. With all the drugs today, the rampant poverty, and the host of societal ills that the city suffers from, these cops are STILL maintaining, AND DECREASING, crime rates in NYC, not "simply maintaining" anything.

You can list cops are down to 10,000 people, but when crimes keeps falling...and the city continues to become better...why not applaud instead of demean, bemoan, and attack? It's sick.
Guy, as part of the NYPD and as someone who grew up in NYC, I think I have a pretty good grasp on why things are better today: the decline in the use of crack-cocaine, the absence of another drug taking its place as a catalyst for crime, and the easy credit that led to prosperity in the world's financial markets, of which NYC is a great beneficiary.

The financial services industry is in turmoil. Credit is drying up and the banks and brokerages are laying off by the thousands. The contraction of credit combined with the loss of high paying jobs has not been felt by NYC and it remains to be seen what the consequences will be. On the one hand, it will probably mean lower rents and home prices, but on the other hand, it may put economic pressure on the crime rate to rise.

I do know that if you handcuff today's cops like Dinkins did, there would be no outcry from the rank & File--many have already adopted a more cautious and less aggressive approach to crime-fighting for various reasons. We are in the middle of a recession, and young cops are still quitting every day. That is not the sign of a healthy organization.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2008, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 3,983,293 times
Reputation: 209
Wow...you are part of NYPD and speak so horribly of it. I think your opinion is that of the bitter and angry, which exists in every profession, not just the police force. It is truly shocking that of all the reasons you give for why things are better today....you chose not to include the hardwork and dedication of the NYPD! WOW! In that case..let's get rid of cops altogether and just give everyone easy credit! Our crime problems are solved!

And actually, I believe the city went through a crisis in the financial markets in 2001 and we subsequently entered a recession. What was the result? The city's crime rate trends kept on going down, down down, and the city emerged healthier and stronger, which brings us to today. Does anyone know how things will play out in the next 2 years? Heck no...but the city is prepared and has the resources and committment to maintain the city and keep it improving. Again..nobody knows...but remember..we are NOT in a recession yet.

It should also be noted that cops have been much MORE aggressive, not less so lately. Stop and Frisks are at record numbers in the city, as the city and police force are being pro-active and aggressive about any increases in crime, as well as maintaining the low crimes rates.

All of this bodes well for the city, and it is a shame that as a cop (supposedly) you speak so poorly of your fellow officers, their hardwork and efforts, as well as the city you live in. Why not quit?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2008, 02:18 PM
 
235 posts, read 1,083,788 times
Reputation: 69
The city had a mild recession in 2001 after the NASDAQ bubble popped and it was mitigated by the Fed lowering interest rates to 1%, which in turn inflated the Housing Bubble, which as we all know, is popping as we speak.

There are no more bubbles left to inflate. Some argue that oil is in a bubble, but ALL commodities have risen in price--such are the consequences of easy credit/loose monetary policy.

Crime bottomed around 1999-2001. The stats may say it has fallen even more since then, but those stats are very actively managed and manipulated.

As for my fellow cops: they are not allowed to be cops; they have been turned into robots. The whole NYPD is micromanaged, and they cover up the shortfalls this creates with bogus stats. There is very little innovation among the avg. cop, b/c the avg. cop is too busy chasing their quotas. The failures of teh NYPD do not belong to the avg. cop, they belong to the Ivory Towered police leaders who think they know more of what is going on in the street than the guys and girls who actually patrol the streets--who the players are, how they operate, etc...

The criminals are much more flexible and motivated. In the long run, this is not good.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:




Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
Similar Threads
View detailed profiles of:

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top