Bronx: Bedford Park Article (Greece, Webster: apartment, for rent, coop)

[90'sHip_Hop_Head]

I cant give it a thumbs at all cause' i never been but by pictures it looks good to me!

[cotb16]

Originally Posted by Guywithacause

Agreed cotb!

Even if a Bronx community has undesirables, most are treated like members of a community instead of social pariahs. That's what I love about the Bronx. VIVA EL BRONX!!!!!!!!!!!

[SeventhFloor]

Originally Posted by SuperMario

Yes. People like making this into an argument where in reality there is nothing to argue. There was a huge thread devoted to this......

The boundaries of the south Bronx are as plain as day.

well i had family that lived in sedgwick pjs....they never referred to where they lived as south bronx....

i got people on 184th and creston, 183rd and walton, 182nd and bathgate, that never referred to where they lived at as "south bronx" either. i have people on 169th and 3rd ave, and they say they live in the "south bronx". so i'm going by long-time residents of the area, since the 1960's in some cases.

overall, the bronx is such an irregularly shaped borough that i can understand why you would see that my geography is off.

i chose jerome avenue as the western boundary because there is a huge crest that rises dramatically after jerome avenue that signifies the start of the west bronx. the dramatic landscape (the huge hills) give good reason to why the east and west in the bronx is divided at jerome avenue. when you cross jerome, i can feel that i'm in a totally different area. maybe different for you because you've lived there so long. jerome avenue does not follow 5th avenue in manhattan if you look at a map.

stretch fordham's southern boundary to east tremont ave, and there you have it.

i see where you're coming from if you say that they named the south bronx because of where it started. but it seems very illogical to name a neighborhood with "moving boundaries" after a geographical description, which cannot move. therefore i cant do the bronx that injustice by associating the "south bronx" with poverty. because if that's the case, i'll tell people that there's a small pocket of the south bronx on laconia avenue called edenwald houses. and there's a small block on east 213th street and white plains road that looks pretty run down, but i'll tell people that's the south bronx too.

other neighborhoods in new york city have experienced urban decay. east new york had plenty of burnt out blocks back in the day. how come the boundaries of east new york didn't move like the south bronx, as the urban decay spread?

think outside the box. just because its written in black and white doesnt mean it necessarily holds weight.

[SuperMario]

Of course the people that live there are not going to say south Bronx because they been made to believe different. That does not make it correct. If you were to ask these people in 1977 where they lived, I gurantee you that 10 out of 10 would say south Bronx. Most people think south Bronx defines geography, they know nothing of the coining of the phrase in the first place. Which was to describe the ghetto.

What does having hills have to do with south Bronx or not? The fact is that parts of the west Bronx were absolutely devastated. If it makes you feel like you're in a different place then so be it. That doesn't change the fact that the decay it went through is virtually identical to the neighborhoods east of Jerome.

No way does Fordham go down to Tremont. Tremont avenue is Tremont neighborhood, as the name implies in this case. Why did you choose Tremont?

Regarding your Edenwald example, you have to remember the south Bronx is a 1970's term. The northeast Bronx was a nice place to live. Your trying to adjust south Bronx to fit 2008 terms, which is wrong. At the time.......the ONLY neighborhoods in the Bronx that went through arson, abandonement, poverty, crime were the neighborhoods south of Fordham. The term south Bronx is outdated.....but your twisting the facts up based on your opinions.

East NY is a neighborhood name. Your example would have been valid had they taken the Mott Haven name and spread it all the way up to Fordham. South Bronx is not a neighborhood name. It is a name that consists of many neighborhoods, used to describe poverty and crime.

You're going against the public concensus and defining your own south Bronx. I dont have to think outside the box. Im basing my opinion on actual historical occurences. Im basing my opinion on the many mayors, city planners and organizations who all agreed with Fordham rd. But I take it that you know more than them.

[BronxPride]

Enough with the South Bronx bickering, shish! Depending on who you ask you will get a completely different opinion of what consists the South Bronx. My experience on this topic is that most out-of-towners lump any bronx neighborhood that is composed of latinos and blacks as the South Bronx.

I read up on this and I know it correlates with the white flight out of the Bronx. Basically, the South Bronx border line changed as whites left and minorities came in. By the way, the whole Bronx decay and "Bronx is Burning" image is partly to blame on landlords burning their buildings. This brought the awful projects.

A big thumbs up for Bedford Park!

[rlrl]

Originally Posted by rlrl
I think in the 70's "South bronx" was a term for the area Jimmy Carter visited, also synonymous with "east bronx".

Although "south bronx" had been defined since then as below Fordham, west of Bx River, east of Harlem River, in an emotional sense "south bronx" really meant the Hunts point, longwood, W Farms areas--the areas that had SEVERE SEVERE abandonment everywhere

I remember in 1977 my dad took us to see Findlay Ave and 170th street and monroe Ave and 173 street(Claremone park area)--the areas where my folks lived when they first married, and we saw mounds of trash and abandoned buildings. I asked my dad 'is this the 'south bronx'? and he replied--"are you kidding, I'll take you to the south bronx and i'll show you REAL disaster!!".

I dont see the difference between Morris Heights and Hunts Point. Both suffered arson, burned buildings, decay etc.......and if you go by the actual meaning of south Bronx (urban decay, crime, poverty) then all the neighborhoods south of Fordham rd suffered the same thing. That is why in the articles, efforts were being made to rebuild every neighborhood south of fordham rd and not just Hunts Point, Mott Haven etc......it was all the same.

Lol nice story......but how much more disaster could your dad have showed you that you didn't already see on 173rd?

**Dad felt there was a distinct difference between the "Ft Apache" area that Carter visited and the rest of the area. He worked in federal probation and once had a case on Monroe and 173rd right next to where he lived when he first married. He described feeling uneasy on the block but said it was nothing like the 41 st pct area. I remembered that day in '77 was after a Yankee game he decided to check out the area so we drove around Monroe and Findlay. I recalled a lot of abandonment . To this day he says there was no comparison between the 2 areas but can never say why.

[SeventhFloor]

Originally Posted by SuperMario

Of course the people that live there are not going to say south Bronx because they been made to believe different. That does not make it correct. If you were to ask these people in 1977 where they lived, I gurantee you that 10 out of 10 would say south Bronx. Most people think south Bronx defines geography, they know nothing of the coining of the phrase in the first place. Which was to describe the ghetto.

What does having hills have to do with south Bronx or not? The fact is that parts of the west Bronx were absolutely devastated. If it makes you feel like you're in a different place then so be it. That doesn't change the fact that the decay it went through is virtually identical to the neighborhoods east of Jerome.

No way does Fordham go down to Tremont. Tremont avenue is Tremont neighborhood, as the name implies in this case. Why did you choose Tremont?

Regarding your Edenwald example, you have to remember the south Bronx is a 1970's term. The northeast Bronx was a nice place to live. Your trying to adjust south Bronx to fit 2008 terms, which is wrong. At the time.......the ONLY neighborhoods in the Bronx that went through arson, abandonement, poverty, crime were the neighborhoods south of Fordham. The term south Bronx is outdated.....but your twisting the facts up based on your opinions.

East NY is a neighborhood name. Your example would have been valid had they taken the Mott Haven name and spread it all the way up to Fordham. South Bronx is not a neighborhood name. It is a name that consists of many neighborhoods, used to describe poverty and crime.

You're going against the public concensus and defining your own south Bronx. I dont have to think outside the box. Im basing my opinion on actual historical occurences. Im basing my opinion on the many mayors, city planners and organizations who all agreed with Fordham rd. But I take it that you know more than them.

all the people i know who live in that area have lived there since the 1970s though. so i'm just going by what they say as residents.

it doesnt change that it went through decay, but it just happened in a different area. the people i know who live there call it west bronx. and they've been there since the 1970's too. just going by what residents say once again.

i chose tremont because tremont is actually three defined neighborhoods: fairmount, mount hope and mount eden. so after tremont you start hitting these neighborhoods.

the point i'm trying to make with you is that the south bronx is a geographical description for a neighborhood. once you put "south" on it, thats what it is. people i know from the northeast bronx (even co-op) say they're from northeast. so call it "decayed" bronx then and be more precise. a neighborhood with shifting boundaries could not be more illogical.

like you said, the name south bronx is used to describe crime, urban decay, and arson. so tell me why i cant use the term south bronx to describe pockets of crime and urban decay in northeast? northeast was the hood in the 1970s. since all "south bronx" is is a term. if south bronx isnt a geographical description of an area, i should be able to use that term to define anywhere within the boundaries of the bronx that have had urban decay.

[rlrl]

like you said, the name south bronx is used to describe crime, urban decay, and arson. so tell me why i cant use the term south bronx to describe pockets of crime and urban decay in northeast? northeast was the hood in the 1970s. since all "south bronx" is is a term. if south bronx isnt a geographical description of an area, i should be able to use that term to define anywhere within the boundaries of the bronx that have had urban decay.

**it may be seen as derogatory to those in the ne bronx as well as to the boro in general because it's like cutting and pasting an already bad label from one depressed area into another area which technically isn't in the south bronx. judging from the Tom Walker book that I read from the 70's "Fort Apache" and the things that went on in the streets in the 41 pct, if I had to guess i might think that even the worst parts of the ne bronx are still very different from the hunts point, w farms, morrisania, sections

[SeventhFloor]

well the northeast bronx isnt mainly tenement buildings like morrissania or melrose, mott haven. but northeast still experienced white flight, and it did get pretty run down. i wouldnt exactly call northeast a neighborhood of white picket fences and manicured lawns just because its one-family houses. there are some blocks off of white plains road that were disgusting, abandoned houses and crackhouses. i know cause my pops used to get his car fixed on grace ave and i remember the neighborhood well.

so like i said people are using a geographical adjective when they use "south bronx" to describe neighborhoods that might not be neccesarily in the southern geographical section of the bronx, and it makes no sense. on top of that, the boundaries move. same thing with south brooklyn, which includes the neighborhoods of carroll gardens and red hook. at one time, that was as far as the borough limits of brooklyn extended. but now the term is defunct, because brooklyn's southernmost neighborhood is coney island now. so i really vote to not even use the term "south bronx" any more, and call the neighborhoods what they are. mott haven, melrose, morrissania, etc.

[Guywithacause]

What happened to Bedford Park??? Open up another thread for the South bronx stuff please. Seventh help me out here!

Regarding Beford Park, has anyone actually been there, shopped there, lived there, recently moved there or moved out? Let's hear from someone who knows.