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Old 06-08-2011, 09:59 AM
 
8,752 posts, read 9,677,302 times
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I am in agreement with the above except for the "horrible 2 family homes with driveways pushed back from the street." It used to be much more dense like the West Bronx with all the tenements, however if they simply rebuilt new rental buildings that densely back then,the only tenants available were the lowest/drug addicts/homeless etc....you think poverty is bad now? Imagine all those "horrible" 2 family homes with driveways replaced with dense 5 story tenement buildings filled with the destitute...the place would be a total disaster and completely unlivable.

When built the suburban style homes did not fit in with the architecture, but because there are so many of them now, they are just another part of a diverse housing stock of new homes, brownstones, 5 story walk-ups, and housing projects. The housing you despise is more in line with the suburban nature of the borough overall, just not so much in the more urban area that is the Southern Bronx. They are actually a good addition to the neighborhood, provided home ownership to those working/middle class who otherwise would have left, stability for the nieghborhood, diversified incomes and beautified the area with new homes/trees/yards/grass etc.

If you lived here...you probably would understand. A casual observer, however, would probably have your opinion.
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Old 06-08-2011, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Ridgewood, NY
2,754 posts, read 3,420,552 times
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The thing is though Suburbs doesn't always equate to better neighborhood, better people... Across the country some of the suburbs are some of the worst neighborhoods as well (i.e. compton)... and having homes like that in an already decrepit neighborhood only gives it a more bleak look personally...

But i do hear what you're saying though about the buildings, even though believe it or not I think they look nicer than these houses do...
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Old 06-08-2011, 04:57 PM
 
8,752 posts, read 9,677,302 times
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I am not saying suburbs were a cure, it was a way to offer a slice of suburbia in the city, which is what people were running to at the time....it was an opportunity to provide home ownership to help stabilize the area, and not just simply add more renters. It was a way to create an economic ladder, and diversify the social paradigm. If personally think having these homes in the neighborhood makes them look more bleak, then we will agree to disagree..because I think they make the neighborhoods look 1000x better.
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Old 06-08-2011, 05:02 PM
 
Location: NC
4,113 posts, read 2,021,734 times
Reputation: 1275
and Brooklyn ain't even that full of hipsters tbh
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Old 06-08-2011, 11:55 PM
 
Location: Planet Earth
3,361 posts, read 3,749,923 times
Reputation: 1273
Quote:
Originally Posted by latinguynjnj View Post
Bronx gentrification would be so awesome but it won't be the same as some parts of northern Brooklyn like Williamsburg. There is a lot more rent control in many different forms. It will always be an economically mixed borough. At least the West and Southeast Bronx. I do see the poverty rate declining eventually though as the area "Gentrifies".

-The areas around the Grand Concourse (A good chunk of the West Bronx) are very European. Very densely built/urban, excellent mass transit. Right now though there is just so much concentrated poverty, buildings are not up to par, and a lack of things to do locally. Still needs a lot of work but similar to Washington heights in build.

-The more eastern parts of the West Bronx to the southern tip were pretty much decimated by arson and has been filled in by low quality, horribly designed townhouses that do not fit the neighborhood character (driveways? Pushed back from the sidewalk?) but a lot of the new apartment buildings are pretty nice though very basic. Lately it seems they have been concentrating on apartment buildings and some of the planned stuff looks really good. It's a real shame because these areas were once as dense as those around the Grand Concourse.

-The Southeast Bronx is still built up and dense especially Soundview/Bronx River/Bruckner but those areas have a lot of public housing. Some parts are not as dense though like southern Castle Hill or Harding Park/Clason Point near the East River but still walkable. Parkchester is dense, lacks public housing and has good transit, pretty well built area.

-The far southeast Bronx, Throgs Neck and Country Club for example needs subway access and is sparser like east Queens. It's already pricey.

-The central East Bronx, Pelham Parkway/Allerton have good density and mass transit, great areas, but the farther east you go, Pelham Bay, it gets pretty sparse.

-The Northeast Bronx has good density near the 2 Train/White Plains road but again the density declines significantly as you go east towards Co-op City. Co-op city could also use a subway stop.

I think the Bronx should definitely continue on becoming green as it has been. The new energy efficient housing is nice and will attract people. They should also try to increase the density. The areas of the west Bronx most affected by arson have lost a lot of density.


1940's West Bronx
1) The areas around the Grand Concourse don't have a lot of Europeans. Maybe in Bedford Park and Norwood, but not anywhere else.

2) Out of curiosity, is that wide street in the center the Grand Concourse? Or is it Webster Avenue?
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Old 06-09-2011, 12:41 AM
 
3,109 posts, read 2,731,670 times
Reputation: 1205
hey OP i'll keep it very simple.

No. I don't think The Bronx will because its geographic proximities (to Manhattan) are different from Brooklyn's. Think about it. What parts of Manhattan are "very close" to The Bronx? Are those areas business districts? Are those areas the heart of Manhattan? No need to answer. We all know the answer.

Now apply the same questioning to Brooklyn. What parts of Manhattan are "very close" to Brooklyn? (Answer: Good and desirable areas, generally) Are those areas business districts? (Answer: Yes, many are) Are those areas the heart of Manhattan? (Answer: Yes, Union Square and the Financial District are important to Manhattan's cardiovascular health)

... so there you have it.

i haven't been closely following this thread and i won't take the time to catch up on 160+ posts so the above is my answer to the OP in a nutshell.
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Old 06-09-2011, 02:35 AM
 
Location: NYC
7 posts, read 4,922 times
Reputation: 13
^grimace8, couldn't have put it better myself.

There's also a bit of a scary rep. Every time I tell somebody I've lived in the Bronx, they freak out and tell how dangerous it is. You'd be surprised how many people have asked if I've been shot at.

It'll be a while before any gentrification happens, if ever.
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Old 06-09-2011, 05:03 AM
 
1 posts, read 925 times
Reputation: 16
If you really think about it, the Bronx as a whole is not very diverse. Income and demographic wise. Its lob-sided. Generally speaking, the low income, uneducated ghetto minority people out number the generally speaking more polite, respectful and educated white demographic who show proper conduct and respect their communities and look out after it.

Despite what anyone else on this board thinks, gentrifying the Bronx would be a great thing and would fix this imbalance demographic so no 1 group or class dominate or have a strong-hold of the Bronx. For the past 50-60 years low income minorities (blacks and hispanics) have had a strong-hold on the Bronx and this is specifically the time when the "changing of the guard" occurred and the Bronx became to "burn" and decay. And we still feel it til this day...30 years later.

If you're black or hispanic you might take offense to this just like white people were offended back in the 60's and 70's when black and hispanic transplants were moving to the Bronx and messing up their neighborhoods. Same scenario. Only difference now is that the "minorities" or now the majority which dominate the Bronx so mentioning the word gentrification automatically offends them because that means they would eventually get displaced because white people want to move in.

So you can't blame both groups for putting up resistance to demographic change in the Bronx, however the change that happened 50-60 years ago had a negative impact on the Bronx (higher crime, lower quality of life, etc.) while gentrification would have a POSITIVE impact in the Bronx economy and increase the standard of living and quality of life in the Bronx.

Only down side is the destitutes get displaced. And in my opinion, who cares? I mean really... if you're a destitute, you contributed to the DECAY the Bronx has experienced for the past 60 years. Now that you're getting displaced, you want to cry and complain and point fingers...you get what you deserve. Just like when you evict a bad tenant from your home, you EVICT these ghetto destitutes from the Bronx and replace them with people that are the opposite.

Its a gradual change but gentrification MUST be done to offset this current imbalanced Bronx demographic. It's all about introducing QUALITY residents to the Bronx that will help it prosper and removing the bad apples that still exist in the Bronx.

And a main reason why its been so difficult to claim back the Bronx from the ghetto strong-hold is because of the Rent Stabilization law which keeps tenants put in the neighborhood. Not a good thing.

Remember, despite Rent Stabilization existing back then, whites fled the Bronx out of choice due to transplants moving in and destroying the community.

Now that we want to claim back the Bronx from the destitues and return it to its old glory days, the rent stabilization law gets in the way of that by "protecting" these destitute tenants so they can continue living in the community and continue ruining the Bronx. What a shame!
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Old 06-09-2011, 06:56 AM
 
Location: Bronx
8,532 posts, read 7,876,086 times
Reputation: 3976
Quote:
Originally Posted by bxguy2012 View Post
If you really think about it, the Bronx as a whole is not very diverse. Income and demographic wise. Its lob-sided. Generally speaking, the low income, uneducated ghetto minority people out number the generally speaking more polite, respectful and educated white demographic who show proper conduct and respect their communities and look out after it.

Despite what anyone else on this board thinks, gentrifying the Bronx would be a great thing and would fix this imbalance demographic so no 1 group or class dominate or have a strong-hold of the Bronx. For the past 50-60 years low income minorities (blacks and hispanics) have had a strong-hold on the Bronx and this is specifically the time when the "changing of the guard" occurred and the Bronx became to "burn" and decay. And we still feel it til this day...30 years later.

If you're black or hispanic you might take offense to this just like white people were offended back in the 60's and 70's when black and hispanic transplants were moving to the Bronx and messing up their neighborhoods. Same scenario. Only difference now is that the "minorities" or now the majority which dominate the Bronx so mentioning the word gentrification automatically offends them because that means they would eventually get displaced because white people want to move in.

So you can't blame both groups for putting up resistance to demographic change in the Bronx, however the change that happened 50-60 years ago had a negative impact on the Bronx (higher crime, lower quality of life, etc.) while gentrification would have a POSITIVE impact in the Bronx economy and increase the standard of living and quality of life in the Bronx.

Only down side is the destitutes get displaced. And in my opinion, who cares? I mean really... if you're a destitute, you contributed to the DECAY the Bronx has experienced for the past 60 years. Now that you're getting displaced, you want to cry and complain and point fingers...you get what you deserve. Just like when you evict a bad tenant from your home, you EVICT these ghetto destitutes from the Bronx and replace them with people that are the opposite.

Its a gradual change but gentrification MUST be done to offset this current imbalanced Bronx demographic. It's all about introducing QUALITY residents to the Bronx that will help it prosper and removing the bad apples that still exist in the Bronx.

And a main reason why its been so difficult to claim back the Bronx from the ghetto strong-hold is because of the Rent Stabilization law which keeps tenants put in the neighborhood. Not a good thing.

Remember, despite Rent Stabilization existing back then, whites fled the Bronx out of choice due to transplants moving in and destroying the community.

Now that we want to claim back the Bronx from the destitues and return it to its old glory days, the rent stabilization law gets in the way of that by "protecting" these destitute tenants so they can continue living in the community and continue ruining the Bronx. What a shame!
You also forgot to mention section eight as a major culprit.
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Old 06-09-2011, 07:36 AM
 
37 posts, read 60,553 times
Reputation: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by SobroGuy View Post
I am in agreement with the above except for the "horrible 2 family homes with driveways pushed back from the street." It used to be much more dense like the West Bronx with all the tenements, however if they simply rebuilt new rental buildings that densely back then,the only tenants available were the lowest/drug addicts/homeless etc....you think poverty is bad now? Imagine all those "horrible" 2 family homes with driveways replaced with dense 5 story tenement buildings filled with the destitute...the place would be a total disaster and completely unlivable.
That's false. If what you say is true areas like Harlem and East Harlem should be worse off because they only build apartment buildings in those locations. That is not the case as we see today. The problems that existed at the time of major abandonment no longer exist. Population exodus being key. If they had built or rehabilitated more buildings in the South Bronx over rowhouses there would only be less of a housing shortage and less cars as well. There justification for building houses was only thinking there would be less demand and the old American Dream of having a house over a building.). They never expected the housing crisis we see today or the change of feelings over living in apartments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SobroGuy View Post
When built the suburban style homes did not fit in with the architecture, but because there are so many of them now, they are just another part of a diverse housing stock of new homes, brownstones, 5 story walk-ups, and housing projects. The housing you despise is more in line with the suburban nature of the borough overall, just not so much in the more urban area that is the Southern Bronx. They are actually a good addition to the neighborhood, provided home ownership to those working/middle class who otherwise would have left, stability for the nieghborhood, diversified incomes and beautified the area with new homes/trees/yards/grass etc.

If you lived here...you probably would understand. A casual observer, however, would probably have your opinion.
The Bronx is NOT suburban. I grew up in the Bronx. I live in the suburbs now. It is not even close to suburban. For one the Bronx is WAY denser, even the least dense parts are denser than inner city anycity USA. Secondly it's walkable everywhere. The Bronx is Urban. Rowhouses are NOT suburban and huge swaths of the Bronx, like the entire West Bronx bleeding into the East Bronx and along the subway lines are apartment building dominated.
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