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Old 07-07-2008, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 2,639,818 times
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Thank you Fred! Good grief!
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Old 07-07-2008, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
878 posts, read 2,350,789 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guywithacause View Post
And those who believe "you spent $500,000 or $1,000,000 you can afford sound proof windows" is the dumbest thing I have ever heard! Hey who cares about the screaming, fighting, stabbings, and loud music on the trains, streets, or restaurants, just wear ear plugs and blinders and get over it. That's nonsense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
Having a permit is not permission to violate noise ordinances. The only thing more ridiculous would be to suggest that the residents can afford soundproofing.
If you feel that the thought of sound proofing your windows is dumb so be it but I still contend that if you can spend 1/2 million to a million dollars or more on an apartment, you can soundproof your windows and eliminate any distracting noise that is occuring outside. We are not talking about poor residents or middle class residents (unless they are in the upper bracket of middle class income). You spend money to weather proof your house against the elements, you renovate your place to make it more comfortable so why not sound proof it if that is such a major issue to you. These complaints come from one building (from what I have read and not even all of the tenants in said buidling) and they have tried to accomodate them to the best of their ability (to the point that the drummers were moved to the top of a hill that some of them and older people who came to participate could not navigate easily) but still nothing but the elimination of the drummers seems to be satisfactory to them.

The drumming occurs about 16 times out of the course of 365 days for approximately 5 hours (4:00 .p.m. to around 9:00 p.m.) and if you are willing to eliminate the tradition that was borne and bred in that neighborhood then you might as well eliminate traditions that occur all over New York City and just make it one big homogeneous city that has nothing unique or flavorful about it. If those rich traditions were not allowed to flourish and thrive then Harlem would not be regarded as the Capital of Black America and we would never have had the Harlem Renaissance where some of the greatest writers, singers, dancers learned their trade through the vibrant energy that was displayed there and that they reveled in. Nowadays, I guess that means nothing because it happened in the past but there are people who still remember the history of Harlem and that is the reason why they want to move and settle there. Not because there is a Starbucks on the corner or a Ben and Jerry's in walking distance. You choose certain neighborhoods not only because of affordability or convenience but because you want to experience the vibrancy that the neighborhood offers and by chipping away one by one, the traditions of a neighborhood that vibrancy is lost and it is not regained again. This is not about drug dealing or people getting mugged, this is about something that Harlem is famous for, which is it's music, it's cultural life, it's food, it's people and without them, you do not have Harlem. You just have the Upper Upper West Side or the Upper Upper East Side and it becomes just another generic neighborhood.

If the majority of the residents are complaining that is one thing. This is a minority of people who live in one building. Don't think for a minute that the older residents or poorer residents don't know how to complain if they are irritated by the drummers. I am sure that they will make themselves heard loud and clear but maybe it does not bother them because it is a fabric of their life. The same way, on Sunday's you might hear the Baptist Church or the Penecostal Church shouting and singing from 10:00 - 2:00. I would never complain and say they are making too much noise. Raise the roof off the rafters and praise God as loud as you want to, if that is your thing. If I am irritated about it, I can turn on the TV, play music or just get out the neighborhood for a little bit. Same way I can't complain when the kids get out of school. They are loud but I knew that when I moved next door to a school.

You have concerts, parades, festivals, block parties etc, all through the summer througout neighborhoods in New York and I am sure that they irritate somebody but you don't eliminate them because somebody does not like them when the majority of the residents enjoy it. And if a resident does not enjoy something that is not a constant activity then they can just remove themselves during the times that something is occurring so that they will not be irritated. At least that is what I do on Labor Day. If I don't want to be bothered, I take myself out of the equation so that I won't be bothered. Small price to pay for harmony in a neighborhood.
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Old 07-07-2008, 05:14 PM
 
Location: Confines of the 101 Precinct
13,145 posts, read 27,964,518 times
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drkman, all they care about is the ability to get to midtown in 20 minutes. simple as that. they dont care about the neighborhood traditions.

with that logic, it makes no sense to even keep a chinatown in nyc...let the whole place become gentrified then.
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Old 07-07-2008, 08:06 PM
 
9,233 posts, read 18,352,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudbeckia View Post
And as far as making things a "race" issue, the white people involved are more guilty of contributing to the "playing of the race card" by sending raciest emails.
I think if you look at this blog BLACK HARLEM, you will see that the black people are making it a race issue just as much as the white people. Here's a quote, obviously sarcastic: HOW DO YOU EXPECT BIF AND AMBER TO SUN THEMSELVES IN PEACE WITH ALL THAT DRUMMING?

Quote:
Originally Posted by drkman View Post
The drumming occurs about 16 times out of the course of 365 days for approximately 5 hours (4:00 .p.m. to around 9:00 p.m.) .
What makes you think it starts at 4pm? I'm sure there are people saying different things different places, but a guy interviewed for the NPR piece says it goes from 11am to 10pm. I don't think anyone is saying 10pm is too late for some noise, I think it's the fact that it goes on ALL DAY.
Drumming Up a Protest in a Harlem Park : NPR

And if you want to get a sense of how these neighbors might feel, then play this youtube video "Harlem Drum circle" really loud. I played it for the entire 5 minutes not even all that loud and I had to turn it down in the middle.
YouTube - Marcus Garvey Park Drum Circle,New York City

I also wanted to note that the NPR piece mentions that the drummers have been moved 3 times "over the last 30 years" due to noise complaints. They have not been moved 3 times over the last 1 or 2 years. The piece doesn't make it clear when the first complaints started, but I really think the complaints are not a brand new thing.

The drummers were moved from near the entrance to further into the park but I think they didn't feel that was an appropriate location for them because it was harder for some of the older drummers to get further into the park - so they moved back to the entrance.

If I lived there I suspect I would complain too.
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Old 07-08-2008, 12:29 AM
 
99 posts, read 427,959 times
Reputation: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henna View Post
I think if you look at this blog BLACK HARLEM, you will see that the black people are making it a race issue just as much as the white people. Here's a quote, obviously sarcastic: HOW DO YOU EXPECT BIF AND AMBER TO SUN THEMSELVES IN PEACE WITH ALL THAT DRUMMING?



What makes you think it starts at 4pm? I'm sure there are people saying different things different places, but a guy interviewed for the NPR piece says it goes from 11am to 10pm. I don't think anyone is saying 10pm is too late for some noise, I think it's the fact that it goes on ALL DAY.
Drumming Up a Protest in a Harlem Park : NPR

And if you want to get a sense of how these neighbors might feel, then play this youtube video "Harlem Drum circle" really loud. I played it for the entire 5 minutes not even all that loud and I had to turn it down in the middle.
YouTube - Marcus Garvey Park Drum Circle,New York City

I also wanted to note that the NPR piece mentions that the drummers have been moved 3 times "over the last 30 years" due to noise complaints. They have not been moved 3 times over the last 1 or 2 years. The piece doesn't make it clear when the first complaints started, but I really think the complaints are not a brand new thing.

The drummers were moved from near the entrance to further into the park but I think they didn't feel that was an appropriate location for them because it was harder for some of the older drummers to get further into the park - so they moved back to the entrance.

If I lived there I suspect I would complain too.


i played the harlem drum circle you tube video really loud and half way through i was wishing i could raise the volume more......matter of fact im thinking of walking with my kids over to Marcus Garvey park this saturday to absorb some of this culture........see, different strokes for different folks.......what makes anyone else's opinion more valid than mine? because they have money and i don't? and you are right it isnt clear how many times the drummers moved or when.... but if they did only move 3 times in 30 years that means once every 10 years someone complained, according to your observation.That sounds like it didnt bother too many people to me.(personally i think they moved 3 times recently). feel free to compain but like i said before, just cause something doesnt float your boat doesnt make it wrong.......

Nevermind that black harlem blog, thats only one guy that doesnt have anything to do with anything. it would be different if he was a tenant of one of the buildings or a drummer or a resident of the area......but he's not.....so dont say "black people".....when its just one black person you'r reffering to. and the music is only on saturday? the new residents cant accomodate the drummers for 1 day out of 7? overall this doesnt seem like just a racial issue......its seems to be a lack of cultural understanding and elitist attitude of some.....who feel like just because THEY dont like it, it has to go.......and i still think anyone who moves across the street from a park in HARLEM and expects peace and quiet is naive. i cant name a park in Harlem that doesnt have bbq's/basketball tournaments/live concerts or music during the summer.....except for riverbank mabye......now if i was armed with that knowledge and looking to purchase in the Harlem area, mabye i would choose not to live by a park if i dont like noise .....just like i wouldnt live over a club or under an el train if i didnt like noise.........that is Marcus Garvey Park in the village of Harlem, respect the history and the culture.

Last edited by DewDrop149; 07-08-2008 at 12:34 AM.. Reason: typo
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:08 AM
 
9,233 posts, read 18,352,569 times
Reputation: 6141
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDrop149 View Post
i
Nevermind that black harlem blog, thats only one guy that doesnt have anything to do with anything. it would be different if he was a tenant of one of the buildings or a drummer or a resident of the area......but he's not.....so dont say "black people".....when its just one black person you'r reffering to. .
You seem to have missed the fact that I was responding to other people's posts. Someone said that "white poeple" are the only ones making this a racial issue and that's clearly wrong. I supported my statement with an example of black people making it an issue as well, and you are all over me for saying "black people". Sorry, but just because you don't like my example doesn't mean it's not real.

And btw, you clearly have NO WAY of knowing that "this is just one black guy". A tiny little simple google search will tell you that there are plenty of other black people out there participating in this issue as a "racial" one. How about another example:

"Go back to the burbs to starve, yuppie scum. You made your bed, now "stay white and die" in it. Nobody gives a sh** about you or your dead-*ss culture. If you're so smart, how did the country you form the "elite" of get so f***d with you at the helm, losers?"

The Epic Of The Fall - ATTENTION ORISHA WORSHIPPERS: White Yuppies Seek To Drive Bataleros From Harlem's Marcus Garvey Park

Also, even in the original NY times article there is this sentence: "the New Black Panther Party, which espouses anti-white ideals, has marched in support of the drummers."

Doesn't sound like just one black guy participating in this issue as a black/white situation, does it?

So it's nice that you think you know everything about this issue, but I'm sorry to say that you really don't. Nor do I, but I can do 30 seconds of research and find out more than you seem to have been able to.
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Old 07-08-2008, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
878 posts, read 2,350,789 times
Reputation: 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henna View Post
What makes you think it starts at 4pm? I'm sure there are people saying different things different places, but a guy interviewed for the NPR piece says it goes from 11am to 10pm. I don't think anyone is saying 10pm is too late for some noise, I think it's the fact that it goes on ALL DAY.
Drumming Up a Protest in a Harlem Park : NPR
I listened to the NPR piece and they stated in the text that sometimes it lasts for more than 4 hours, which would confirm, too me, that the basic drum circle is about 4 hours long and on occassion it goes longer. What I got from the guy is that he was using his own agenda for the interview and just picked 11:00 to strengthen what he was saying. Also, by listening to him, he appears to be everything that people complain about regarding gentrification of a neighborhood, since, too me, he basically made the argument of I have money, I have moved here and now the neighborhood must conform to me since we live in a capitalistic society. Not exactly someone who cares about the traditions of a neighborhood but someone who wants to rebuild a neighborhood in their own image for their own purpose.

Last edited by drkman; 07-08-2008 at 07:52 AM..
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Old 07-07-2008, 03:15 PM
 
99 posts, read 427,959 times
Reputation: 98
wow......im suprised to see people in this thread that are usually boasting about new york's culture, all of a sudden talk of possibly getting the authorities to shut down african drummers and a church who have cultural roots in thier communities. this is not a group of people randomly making noise in a park, this is people making MUSIC. you may not like the music, and thats your opinion but you have to acknowledge that it is indeed music. imagine if i moved to the lower east side in the 1980's above CBGB and i thought they were too loud..........should i try to have them shut down? i dont like punk music at all but i respect the fact that other people like it and overall i respect that it is music. Besides this is new york city, there will always be alot of noise.....and in a city where you live side by side with many different cultures you have to be tolerant and accomidating to other people and other cultures. it is well within your right to complain as a new yorker but dont expect people to change traditions and change thier habits and way of living just cause it doesnt tickle your fancy............comparing old men playing drums to drug dealers? are you serious? the noise ordinance is for noise not music...........
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Old 07-07-2008, 03:20 PM
 
169 posts, read 351,491 times
Reputation: 66
word. and guy, my question was for you, because I kno u love gentrification: what about riverdale? why don't you say "the jewish festivals should pipe down because they're violating noise ordinances, good riddance!" ?? cuz i can guarantee you they blast the jewish rock louder than the african drums in harlem.
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Old 07-07-2008, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Concourse Village, Bronx
127 posts, read 468,757 times
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All this over drumming? LOL I once made a noise complaint to 311. Univision sponsored a Puerto Rican Day festivity at Edgar Allan Poe park. A band was playing salsa at 6am in the morning. Needless to say it woke me up! The music was loud and the 311 operator agreed with me. He sent the police from the nearby police precint. I never followed-up on the results, but I hope Univision changed their plans next year. I gotta admit that I felt a little weird protesting salsa music in a borough that is known for its salsa music, but just because residents in the vicinity are primarily Hispanic does not mean that you can blast Spanish music at any time of the day.

I have another "salsa problem" that I may tackle soon. I have an annoying 2nd floor neighbor that likes to go on her fire-escape, cut her veggies, and blast her melancholic salsa music around 10pm at night. She needs a man badly. Any takers? lol
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